The final English tape
As I predicted this morning, Mr Keystone Kop released another tape.
It isn’t much. Bill English saying that Europe sometimes doesn’t sort out its own backyards and suggesting that Obama is too moralistic on international relations as sometimes you have to pull the trigger.
Helen is claiming this proves the National Party is militaristic. You would think she hadn’t sent the SAS into Afghanistan.
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November 4th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Towards the end of the clip did the Labour member Garner say there was another one coming???
November 4th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Think so – just not English
November 4th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
That attempt at a smear is more feeble than Batman’s effort last week.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Remember – this is the same Helen Clark who claimed that John Key was ignorant as to when the Iraq war ended, and therefore sent the engineers there while (in her opinion) the Iraq war was still raging.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
How bloody pathetic….
How could anything English said on the tape be considered newsworthy? What a crooked little beatup.
Three things of substance arise from it however:
1/ I will have nothing to do with TV3 news from here on. They are biased and both lead items were designed to make JK look bad.
2/ garner is as much a journalist as I am a rocket scientist.
3/ clark is a liar. She has known what was in each tape and would have organized their release dates.
Right now I am bloody angry.
G
November 4th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
It seems Helen comes from the Chamberlain school of thought – Appeasement at all costs.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Oh for Pete’s sake, I wish the Nats said this sort of thing more often, and stood by it too. The disconnect between “Liberals” and the real world is just absurd, and it is sickening that these people exert such P.C. thought control in our public discourse. Hopefully people are tiring of it. Look at that Herald Poll on Lockwood’s recent comments before the thought police got a few thousand “votes” to it at 2 AM in the morning.
Net result of this “tape”: (I hope) net vote gain for the Nats.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
All this will serve to do is remind people of the Williams fiasco and what a nasty, vindictive bunch Labour are.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Here’s Dunky’s email if anyone wants to have a chat to him:
dgarner@tv3.co.nz
November 4th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Seriously one thing is sure now, Labour’s own internal polling has really set the alarm bells ringing when they stoop to this sort of crap.
Helen’s Hydra is clearly in the emergency ward in a coma on a life support system.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
How vomit inducing… the woman really is a very sick fuck.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Dear oh dear. I noticed the quiet desperation of Helen last night during the leaders debate. It was painfully clear she’d run out of everthing you need to govern or win an election. And now this, Headlines news: Bill English has an opinion.
It’s just plain comedy. This is all they have. Secret Squirel tapes of English making his opinion known. 
…
so, I’m having a Singaporean noodle type dinner tonight. What else is new?
November 4th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Here’s my suggestion
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/11/boycott-3news.html
November 4th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Was that it! New tuis billboard. THAT’LL FUCK EM! ……
November 4th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
This is a joke, right? Even the PM looked sheepish about it. But, on second thoughts, that’s actually insulting to sheep.
Sheep are not that dumb.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
“Helen is claiming this proves the National Party is militaristic.”
She’s the one with all of the (Chicom) generals for friends.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Here’s what was promised…
“Matey24 (17) Vote: 0 0 Says:
November 4th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
English talks frankly to someone posing to be extremely right wing. He reassures them, again, that JK and BE will push a hard right wing agenda once they get in – some quote about a ‘trojan horse’.
He goes on to slag off Key and talks about a growing faction of National mps who back him over John.
This was emailed to me half and hour ago. Not a transcript but from somebody who has it.”
And here’s what was delivered…
zzzz
November 4th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Oh my God, theres a right wing element to the National Party. Thank gooeness for that I say! Thanks Duncan.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Bill English is correct.
I am going to tick national with the orange marker extra hard on Saturday.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
From here on in, I don’t think it matters a toss what she might do between now and Saturday. Everyone is sick to death of her, and just want her gone asap.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
“Here’s Dunky’s email if anyone wants to have a chat to him: dgarner@tv3.co.nz”
Fuck him and fuck the rest of them. Both this election and the US election has ensured that the mainstream media are fucked for all time. Journalists? What a sick joke. They’ve never been anything but yellow backed Goebbells type propagandists for the left, and in these two elections they’ve so prostrated themselves to their political masters and have so brazenly betrayed the craft of journalism, no intelligent person will ever regard them with anything but utter contempt. Guttersnipes. In respect of their partisan advocacy for the dangerous deceitful fraud Obama, the very fluffy little Pomeranians who yapped around Adolf Hitler’s ankles.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
My email response to Duncan Garner
“I am greatly reassured that as an award winning journalist you make
no judgement call on the veracity of any tapes you receive but merely
act as a conduit to reveal the “truth” to the people of NZ.
Please look forward to receiving in the mail shortly
extensive footage of all the Labour and Green MP’s as they
make their way around on the campaign trail. I’m sure you will
also be grateful, (perhaps even breathless) to receive
recent footage of Winston Peter as he attempts to
parachute himself out of a helicopter into John Key’s
swimming pool.
I look forward to seeing all of these tapes headlining, what can now only
loosely described as your “news” channel.”
November 4th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Is that it, what a bloody joke.
Two ticks National!!!!!!
November 4th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
What was happening in July and August in the World??? Big bad Russia was invading Little Georgia that was trying to reoccupy it’s territory just like Russia did in Chechenia….
Sounds like Bill English has a better grasp on international politics than “Communist Oppressive of all human rights China is okay but 1981 South Africa” is not Helen.
Lets hope the Swing voters swing away from Helen and the the thought control police.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
“In respect of their partisan advocacy for the dangerous deceitful fraud Obama, the very fluffy little Pomeranians who yapped at Adolf Hitler’s ankles.”
If you want to talk about dangerous and deceitful frauds, you can’t go far past George Dubya, who started two wars (at least one of which he caused) all the while being so dim-witted that he famously tried to read “The Very Hungry Caterpillar” upside down and couldn’t for the life of him figure out what was wrong.
Oh, and one pomeranian journalist = one vote. Don’t forget you’re invited to my Obama victory party tomorrow night!
November 4th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Think the media, and their journalists will be looking hard at their contracts.
It is time to give them a lesson on fairness!
In our own time.
The sweetness of fairness!
November 4th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
My email response to Duncy (sorry Duncan)
I am greatly reassured that as an award winning journalist you make
no judgement call on the veracity of any tapes you receive but merely
act as a conduit to reveal the “truth” to the people of NZ.
Please look forward to receiving in the mail shortly
extensive footage of all the Labour and Green MP’s as they
make their way around on the campaign trail. I’m sure you will
also be grateful, (perhaps even breathless) to receive
recent footage of Winston Peter’s as he attempts to
parachute himself out of a helicopter into John Key’s
swimming pool.
I look forward to seeing all of these tapes headlining, what can now only
loosely described as your “news” channel.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
I am starting to like Bill English all the more!
November 4th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
I want my money back.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Helen Clark told the media earlier in the day it promised to be a real “doozy”
Trust Helen to get it wrong (again)
November 4th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
That was pathetic.
But TV3 running with it was even more pathetic than Clarks desperation.
So THAT was supposed be bigger than:
* the Melbourne Cup
* a turn around in the Govt books in a matter of weeks from $900 M surplus to an $800M deficit ($1.7Billion loss in a matter of weeks). This clearly demonstrates the financial incompetence of the Labour goverment to manage our business (the NZ economy) by not taking conservative positions on investments to protect against an impending financial disaster that was was widely forecasted internationally some 12+ months ago, AND
* Obama’s grandmother dying.
(The financials and Labours incompetence are enough to demonstrate why Labour shouldn’t be allowed another 3 years to manage our economy. Yet Key had to downplay it so as not to scare the international markets confidence in investing in NZ.
Don’t blame Garner – I’m sure the head of TV3 news makes the call, with assistance from the head of Sales (revenue) as to what drives the ratings. Exclusives work well so I’m told!
Obviously TV3 are struggling in the current economic conditions as their advertising revenue dries up forcing them to resort to desperate measures to enhance their ratings!
Clark/The PM’s office offer “exclusives” all the time to TV1 or TV3 – which Clark knows they’ll jump at because it drives up rating and thus revenue. And if they don’t play the game the PM withdraws the exclusives and gives them to the competition. Smart woman.
Pathetic all round.
What a bunch of transparent loosers.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
If this has ANY effect on the election at all, which I seriously doubt, it will be to turn even more people off Labour’s increasingly desperate and pathetic sleaze trawling.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Big Bruv, I second that, Bill is starting to look “the man’
November 4th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
“If you want to talk about dangerous and deceitful frauds, you can’t go far past George Dubya, who started two wars ”
Braindead. The Iraq war was voted on by Congress and passed with the enthusiastic support of the Democrats, and I don’t care what other war you’re referring to you sad mainstream media suckholing bore. You haven’t ever got anything but lies, and those lies always come from the left. You don’t have a clue what happens outside the dark and narrow little world of your stinking socialist box.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Ratbiter,
GWB did not start any wars. Saddam and Osama did.
That said, this thread is about the pathetic tape released on TV3, not your left wing fantasies.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Has someone not told these morons that every time they pull these stunts they lose another thousand votes. On second thoughts let them get on with it, they do the country a huge service, they show themselves up for the total two bob arseholes they really are.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Helen Clark trying to make hay out of this on TV3 almost certainly did her way more damage than it would have BE.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
The herald will reveal the identity of the taper tomorrow
November 4th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
What I found parlicularly amusing was Helen Clark piously expressing her “concern” over what impact this neutron sparkler would have on relations with a potential Obama Administration. About the same as our relations with Australia after a hideously unflattering DFA briefing paper on Clark was accidentally put in press packs during Rudd’s visit in August — i.e. none at all?
I have a funny feeling, contrary to popular opinion, that President-Elect Obama is harbouring no delusions that clenching his buttocks causes solar eclipses. And as both Clark and Key said on the Three debate last night, the next Government of New Zealand (of whatever complexion) will maintain close and constructive relations with whoever the American people elect tomorrow. Doesn’t mean there won’t be differences, but when have things ever been different?
As for Duncan’s charming “we report, you decide” justification. Well, I once had the dubious pleasure of being in the same room as a (half-cut, to be fair) engaged in a crude, lewd and pretty offensive diatribe about a female journalist. Perhaps I should anonymously email my recollections of that outburst to TVNZ, and encourage them to broadcast my recollections and let the public decide whether to trust them or not.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Lucky Bill didnt slag off the chinese as well. Dear leader would have been more than “concerned” then.
G
November 4th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Seriously, was that it? Did TV3 play the wrong audio, because that ‘exclusive’ wouldn’t even warrant a mention on Mossburn Community Radio, let alone masquerading as the lead story for a supposed major network.
I’ll only be watching TV3 News for the weather from now on. Actually, why bother when there is the Toni Marsh soundboard http://www.interface-7.net/20020922/.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
The funniest thing in this continueing pathetic saga is Clark thinking this was “a cracker” more like she has cracked. Stupid Bitch – she can rot in hell. – as I have said previously she is unstable – and desperate and grasping at straws.
The reality is that this is the diversion labour need because Cullen has lost $1.6b from a surplus of over $700m a few months ago to a deficit of $850m now. The in Thursday when the socialists need another diversion (as unemployment figures are released) the next and final fizzer will be released.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Only TV3 and Helen Clark thought what Bill said was about Iraq. And they had to, didn’t they. Otherwise, what Bill said falls into line with what most foreign policy analysts think about the current geopolitical climate.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Hmm, so according to the Labour Party, Bill English started the war in Iraq, and John Key engineered the credit crunch.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhh!!!!!
As they are so vewwy vewwy powerful, I had better vote for them instead!
November 4th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
What’s happening here is a reflection of so-called media influence. Might have worked last time, guys, with the Exclusive Bretheren beat-up, but, hey, this is 2008. Times have changed.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
just reading on whaleoil secret tapes sneak and eves dropper is kees keizer sounds like a green nazi.he is the marathon running theif and gatecrasher for the GREENS-labour ex goverment
November 4th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
you are right Bill, his old lady is a loney leftie from the Deep South and up to her eyeballs in with the Greens…she is a regular in the editorial of the Southland Times waffling on about their Green communist propaganda
November 4th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Actually for a better effect, we should send copies of our email correspondence to
TV3 to the head of TV1 News and vice versa
Anyone know who to contact there?
November 4th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Here is a travel blog for Kees Keizer – the guy that made the secret tapes: http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/DestinationAlgeria/
November 4th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Some of you make me laugh. You hear a rumour, believe it, rally to it, spin it, then when its not as you thought it woud be pronounce it a fizzer. She said it would be a “cracker”. Did she, got the tape? I heard Soper said she said it was a “cracker”. The bigger news was Peters being cleared (as such) by the police but Soper would choke having to report too much on that. Reading your opinions, some of you, of the media, you hold very low opinions of them but selectively believe them when they attribute something to Clark.
I didnt think much of the tape either. NOT that someone taped something, but that it said nothing new. I believe in all walks of life you say in public what you say in private. I jus dont believe some here who are so upset at the “tactic” of taping were nearly so upset at Mike Williams being caught saying stupid cynical things on tape.
I put my money on ACT being the source of the taping and the tapes. I also put my money on C’est La Guerre.
The sooner this masquerade called an election is over, the better. I hope it takes 2 months to form a new govt. Last time it took that long we realised how little we miss them and how little we need them. Life went on generally very smoothley.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Helen Clark and her media staff are highly skilled manipulators of our media.
But how could any NZ media outlet have the resources (time or money) to compete with a government that spends:
* $39+Million pa (510 staff on an average of $77K per annum) of our money on spin to deceive and misled the NZ public, PLUS
* has 9 of her own personal media spinners – Chief Press Secretary, two Press Secretaries, a Communications Manager, four Communications Advisors and a Communications Assistant – to control the output, the message and the delivery.
From a business perspective Labour probably sees that expenditure as a highly effective use of our money!
What an irresponsible use of the taxpayers money.
Bring on the Razor Team to make some cuts. That’s an easy $100M over 3 years of our money that could be saved instead of spent.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Fuck them. The government books are in severe debt. Crime is through the roof. The health service is crumbling. Our kids aren’t being educated. The right to free speech is repressed, and all TV3 and The Labour Party do is cream their pants when the deputy leader of the opposition, with no context, says that Obama may not have been born in a fucking manger.
I tell you what. If Hydra occurs in the coming weeks. See the biggest exodus from a developed country in history.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
kiwibloggers, standing up for censorship since… 200?
November 4th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Interesting comment on his travel blog:
November 4th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
So Helen knows nothing about this at all, but quickly links it to the Iraq War.
Completely coincidentally, the only “two johns” ads I’ve seen tonight have both been on the Iraq War.
Just coincidence, I’m sure. Wouldn’t be part of a strategy. I mean, how could it? Labour didn’t know about this tape.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Oh – and classy – check out his oldfriends profile – who is that familiar person in his profile picture? Vladimir Lenin!
November 4th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Time to fight dirt with dirt , surely someone has a Peter D tape or photo?
November 4th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
This is a fizzer. It was a simple opinion by Bill English. We don’t have to agree with Obama all the time. Is this not the same Helen Clark who said Al Gore would make a better President than George Bush and then had to send a letter of apology. I am sorry to say that a proud and competent PM who could have easily campaigned on her record has stooped so low to secure power. People have switched off long time back and this kind of attitude (saying “this is a cracker”) will drive more and more voters away. My only worry in this episode is Duncan Garner said that more tapes are coming…
November 4th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
I’m still wondering why Helen Clark doesn’t wear a wedding ring
I’d pay big money to see Barry Soper or Duncan Garner ask her that one!
November 4th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
If they’re that powerful, why bother? Darth Key and Darth English have already rigged it, so we don’t waste time voting that would be better used preparing for the dominion of His Infernal Lowness Satan to lay waste to the world!
November 4th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
obama will win he is the USAs last false hope to make the yanks think that there is no election fraud,he is for change just like key but nothing will change only get worse,obama was born in kenya not in the US,after he gets in there will be another 911 only bigger and like the first 911 israil will be behind it want proof watch FABLED ENEMYS
there is much more going on than you have been told
just prove me wrong only one rule no government info unless its from japan, italy,russia,iran,they know the truth and have started to release there info to the public not that any of you will see it unless you look outside main stream media
November 4th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
According to duncan garner it’s not tv3′s job to censor the news…Yet still no mention of the vela/peters story from them
November 4th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
jas,
drugs are bad for you. Seek help.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Hey DPF, how long dose a comment wait for moderation?
November 4th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
awesome – certainly send correspondance to tv1 and tv3. Give them hell on the Labour strategists blog also, at :www.frasercarson.com.
This madness must end!
November 4th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
It’s very sad, but almost funny to see Clark and Co.s’ pathetic attempt at smearing the Nats one last time before the election.
Unless John Key was caught on video skinning live kittens while smoking P and speeding at 160km/h in a Vela’s helicopter, I really doubt there is anything aunty Helen can do to turn the tide around. Now we just got to make sure everyone go out and vote on Saturday, even if you think the Nats will have enough votes regardless of whether you voted or not.
Can’t wait till the celebration on Sunday.
November 4th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
That was it?
A comment saying that Europe are slack at sorting out their own back yard and USA less likely to come and help. I suppose we would not get USA help either with East Timor, Bougainville and the Solomon Islands.
Didn’t HC personally congratulate corporate Apiata for receiving his VC for his “Crimes against humanity” in Afghanastan. Labour has been happy to support conflict, so long as it is done on the quiet.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
So I’m just working this out….$1.7 Billion turnaround in 3 months. Doesn’t that means this incompetence government has lost about $141M per week? Cullen should be fired!
November 4th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
To all of you who have claimed that Helen is responsible please come up with a skerrit of evidence. Otherwise address the contents.
The timing is fabulous. Key has been trying to make out that he is an “agent of change” and will make things better for ordinary people just like Barack. The reality is that he is much closer to GW Bush.
Just for your information English states the folowing” … and the US you can argue over do it – and Bush should have put a different window [hic] – a different window dressing – there’s still needs someone willing to pull the trigger”.
It seems that Bill may have enjoyed a couple of cocktails that night but my interpretation of what he said is that – the Iraq war is right – they just need a better PR job – violence and the use of force is necessary.
I do not see how the “context” could change this.
I just wish the tories would be honest and say this instead of trying to be Labour lite on everything. We could then have a real campaign not this pale imitation where both parties say they will follow a centre left line and you know that only one will.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Having been around parliament a wee bit, I remember back to the early 90s when Ralston, Campbell and old Pizza Face Steve Christensen were the TV3 gallery hacks. Ralston was the only one who did any work, with the other two spending their days clowning around or drinking. Now Campbell, on the basis of SFA, is the host of TV3′s so-called flagship current affairs show.
Having been back around Parliament in the late 90s, I remember wondering to myself ‘how the fuck did duncan garner get a job?’ he has no intellect, little capacity for original thought, and likes a party. How he became political editor is fucking beyond me.
In fact, after tonight’s performance, he may even be related to Winston Peters, given their obvious similarities.
I’ve been considering doing some research on TV news watching patterns over the last 20 years. I suspect the results would be fascinating.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
PS mickysavage – ah, aren’t you drawing a long bow? or just being a fuckwit as usual?
November 4th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
I see no-one other than TV3 is running this as a story – it appears that Garner has lost any credibility he may have had as a political journalist.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
MS
Helen has said that she’s the master strategist. You prove she didnt know.
And your problem with English’s comments is…….what exactly?
G
November 4th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Mickeysavage,
You clowns on the left are totally deluded now.
Keep doing what you’re doing though, all it’s doing is helping to give the right wing parties more and more votes.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
The comments regarding Europe are perfectly legitamate. Basque speratists in Spain. The Balkans have been a basket case for a hundred years. Eastern European immigrants are swarming throughout the EU. Cyprus is disputed, need I go on?
November 4th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Since Labour have been making fools out of the NZ public for the past 9 years
It is only fair that they should now be doing the same for TV3 News.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Is that it??? IS THAT BLOODY IT??????? IS THAT IT????IS THAT BLOODY IT??????OH 4 FS.
Come on Saturday and lets get the agony over with.
Mind you I am looking foward to my $500 xmas gift to the needy.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Is there anywhere (online or on street) that I can legally place bets on who will be the next PM? If there is, I am going to put $100 on Clark because I never ever win any bettings, be it horses or dogs or sports. The horse, dog, team I bet on always came last without exceptions. (Yes, I’m willing to part the $100 if it means a better future for New Zealand)
November 4th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
If explosives have tiny detonators, then this story is a detonator that malfunctioned.
Also, loved the rejoinder where Dunky was asked “what about those who would say it’s wrong to broadcast this material just prior to the election” .. or words to that effect. And Dunky replied that “they have no opinion, but simply release stories and let the public decide”.
Comedy gold!
That socialist prat would release secret tapes of key farting if he thought it might help Dear Leader.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
I have just sent the following email to Dunkie.
I am pleased that he reported this pile of pooh’s.
I am now sure he is a closet NAT.
Thanks Dunk
“I loved the way you apologised for bringing us the revelation on Bills Views. I agree that you must report and would be remiss if you did not do so.
Well done, I think that you have just garnered (sic) another few thousand votes for National… you bloody good thing you”
November 4th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
lee i wish i was on drugs,but no just lots of research and the ability to turn off the tv,see i am a free thinker that will not be told what to believe,i make up my own mind from the research i gather ,please prove me wrong,
amuse yourself by taking some time out of your busy life and watch LOOSE CHANGE 2 on you tube one of the reasons i know what i know
November 4th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
The best way to stop this is to boycott anyone who advertises with TV3 during their news and start an email/letter campaign explaining exactly why you’re taking this course of action. Every war is won by bankrupting your enemy.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
If it wasn’t for the blogosphere seemingly being the ONLY medium, publicly desseminating these reports and the utterances of politicans, I’d wonder how much influence HC’s rantings and ravings would really have over the masses??? Scary stuff. Viva le Blogosphere!
November 4th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
kees keizer not born in new zealand!fom cyria or syria a of persian decent since the crusades they have never liked the west fuck off back to damaskas geen labour man… also who the fuck is penny bright serial radio pest whos trying to also smear john key….what has penny bright got in her closet.also she/he sounds like sue badford
November 4th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Why would Garner say this on TV3s website?
“3 News political reporter Duncan Garner says it is not 3 News’ job to censor the news.
“If we didn’t report it we would be failing in our duty…all 3 News can do is broadcast the material and be as balanced and as careful about it as possible,” he said.”
He is obviously feeling guilty about being used.
But he is also talking rubbish. We all know full well there is a news filtering step – he can’t and doesn’t include everything. He has taken a deliberate decision to include this secretly recorded, doctored and manipulative political propaganda ahead of other news.
He can’t escape responsibility for being a puppet promoting Labour propaganda as and when they want to pull his strings.
Balanced and careful? Yeah right.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
mickey,
“To all of you who have claimed that Helen is responsible please come up with a skerrit of evidence.”
How about the recent sleaze trawling in AUS, done by the Labour Party President, and paid for by the LP? And OF COURSE Helen knows what her pres is doing in the middle of an election campaign and OF COURSE he would not be there without her authorisation.
We ALREADY have evidence that the Clark regime is trawling for sleaze, so its perfectly reasonable to assume that tonights failed attempt also had Labour behind it. And NOTHING happens in the LP without Clark’s permission.
“The timing is fabulous. Key has been trying to make out that he is an “agent of change” and will make things better for ordinary people just like Barack.”
Based on his policies he WILL make things better. Obama has nothing to do with that.
“The reality is that he is much closer to GW Bush.”
Gee, mabey because they are both centre-right politicians? DUH.
“Just for your information English states the folowing”
Just for your information, we already know what he said. Prat. Thats what we have been talking about.
“the Iraq war is right – they just need a better PR job – violence and the use of force is necessary.”
And I agree with him one hundred percent. And as far as the use of force in Afghanistan against the Taliban/Al-Qaeda is concerned, so does Helen Clark. Does that make HER closer to GWB?
“not this pale imitation where both parties say they will follow a centre left line”
Nobody in National is now or ever has said they will follow a “centre-left line”. They have said they will follow a moderate centrist to centre-right line. And everything I have seen so far confirms that.
Lets be clear, all that Bill said was that sometimes you have to put pious moralising aside, bite the bullet, and take military action. And he is right. The only people too deluded or too fucked up on drugs to understand that are the Greens. Well, that and the fact that they like terrorists.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
That is an absolutely appalling comment. Okay, call me a peacenik greenie (most of you do hear anyway, and worse), but it is still an appalling comment. Let’s hear some of the warmongers here try to defend that comment, not just try to excuse it as a non-event.
Getting involved in aggressive wars is what we desperately need to avoid. As non-renewable resources (like oil) are depleted we need to look to alternative and renewable resources – not just pull the trigger and march in to steal someone else’s.
That approach will inevitably but humanity into Mad Max territory, but English doesn’t seem to get it: “sometimes you have to pull the trigger”!!!
[DPF: Totally defensible. The comments I saw as referring to former Yugoslavia and supporting Bill Clinton's military interventions there to protect the Bosnian Muslims and later Kosovo]
November 4th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Penny is a true kiwi standing up to curruption
November 4th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Garner should just do what Campbell does and
just bring in some actors, and blank out their faces
What was with the posy of flowers beside Bill English?
November 4th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Oh Toad, keep going son, you will believe what you say for the next few years, then all of a sudden you will mature and the haze will fall from you eyelids, eureka you will say, I never understood, but now I do….what a moment.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
No Toad, sometimes we must engage in aggressive wars, to keep our liberty & freedom, sorry sonny, one day you will wake up to what you actually have, and realise that you may be called on to defend it.
I respect your view at your stage, but with all “due” respect you do have some growing to do.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Hey, frog. You don’t have to be the aggressor in a war to be willing to pull a trigger. Do you imagine that one day everyone will just use their AK47s as flowerpots and that the only thing standing in the way of that outcome is George Bush?
November 4th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
“That is an absolutely appalling comment.”
Nope, its just a statement of truth.
“Okay, call me a peacenik greenie”
Sure. Your a peacenik greenie. Happy now?
“Let’s hear some of the warmongers here try to defend that comment, not just try to excuse it as a non-event.”
National defense is not “warmongering”, it is a basic right. If my country, and therefore my family, are threatened by terrorists who attack and kill thousands of my fellow citizens, or a tyrant brutally invades one of my countries allies, we have the right to defend ourselves and our friends. POINT DEFENDED.
“Getting involved in aggressive wars is what we desperately need to avoid.”
First, all wars are “aggressive”. There is no such thing as a passive war.
Second, unless you have a magic formula for making all the tyrants and terrorists just go away, or one for preventing them from ever doing bad things, the use of military force is just a reality of life, in the same way that the use of force by the police is necessary.
“As non-renewable resources (like oil) are depleted”
Prove it.
“we need to look to alternative and renewable resources – not just pull the trigger and march in to steal someone else’s.”
Nobody has stolen Iraq’s oil. Its still there, and the US never needed it in the first place. The “its all about oil” theory is just an excuse for justifying the “peace movements” support for tyranny and terror.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
I would appreciate your views on my posts toad, please feel free to explain to me why we never need to defend ourselves or defend our liberty.
I look forward to your reasoned and considered reply.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Meet the suspected tapeworm according to Whaleoil, Kees Keizer:
http://www.europe.canterbury.ac.nz/gallery/eucnconf06/
November 4th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Freedom is never free. It must be fought for and defended. Those not willing to fight for freedom have no right to its blessings.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Isn’t it strange how the greenies like toad call themselves peaceful. Greenpeace use aggressive and non peaceful methods to get what they want. So toad, go back to the swamp.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
“That is an absolutely appalling comment.”
No it isn’t. Fuck off with your faux outrage. You would be standing around with your finger up your self righteous arse while Hitler exterminated the Jews. Just like you stood around and allowed th Nth Vietnamese communists to murders thousands of South Vietnamese. Just like you allowed Stalin to murder millions of his own people. Just like you would have stood by and allowed the totalitarian Hussein continue to terrorise and murder Iraqis. Just like even now, with your bullshit about “oil”, you’re doing the lies and propaganda of the totalitarians. Like it or not, war solved many of mankind’s problems, and the lack of it resulted in many an innocent death. Take your infantile platitudinal nonsense elsewhere.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Duncan Garner is I think the last one who should be throwing stones, living in a glass house and all… he’s got some dirty little (poorly kept) secrets himself…
November 4th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Garner spent most of his piece covering his @rse with self proclaimed nonsensical disclaimers. If the Govt changes this weekend, I expect he will be wondering why he can’t get any interviews.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Gee Toad, have you thought for a second Bill wasn’t talking about NZ pulling the trigger but that someone, somewhere needs to occasionally. Diplomacy doesn’t always work and sometimes you just need to use the bigger stick. The Balkans, Somalia, Sudan….need I go on, sure the UN can pass as many resolutions as it likes but until people go into harms way and make others do whats right, its all just useless talk.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
English is my person of the day he’s managed single handed to get the looney left in to a real tizz.
November 4th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I’m with Toad.
Can any of you justify in 50 words, or 50,000 words for that matter, the invasion of Iraq by the US?
Sure it was to take Sadam out and remove the weapons of mass destruction that were plentiful and to liberate the Iraqi people and give them western democracy. The only trouble is that Saddam was set up by the CIA in the 1980s, there were no WMDs, and a civilised sophisticated Iraqi society was brought to its knees and has not recovered.
The point that I (and Toad) are trying to make is that this was a really bad stupid decision, even if the use of force is justified on the very odd occasion. The invasion of Iraq was totally wrong. All they have done is bring hardship and devastation to the ordinary people of Iraq. Key criticised Helen for not going in with guns blazing. Now as part of the Labour lite approach he is busily denying this.
I just wish that he had the honesty to say what he thinks which I am sure is what he thought before. Then we could have a proper election where people could choose on the basis of what approach they prefer.
Sorry but both parties are going centre left. As I said before I am sure that only one party (Labour) will keep its promises. If National get in it will bring in the mother of all budgets II and cuts and slashes to essential services. They should be brave and say what they want to do and what they think of ordinary people, just like Lockwood and Maurice did before they were muzzled.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Oh yawn, the sooner I can get to a polling booth the better, I will be there early on Saturday, will try and find my best “national party blue” clothes and I will be ticking twice for National!!! ANd then to enjoy a fireworks display in the evening prior to parking up in front of the TV to watch a good old fashioned hiding being dished out. Bye Bye Helen, Winston, et al – see you in court
November 4th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
“Getting involved in aggressive wars is what we desperately need to avoid”
Yes we should only send troops to passive wars armed with automatic wet bus ticket dispensers.
“Let’s hear some of the warmongers here try to defend that comment”
Well if some of your “peace” loving comrades at the UN actally pulled the bloody trigger there would be no such thing as the Sebrenica massacre or the Rewandan genocide.
This anti war ideology ALWAYS ends up killing precissely the people they are supposed to protect.
It sickens me how lefties place their ideology ahead of other peoples survival, they are hypocrites of the highest order.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
That rancid hag says National is “militaristic” but she has sent hundreds of NZ servicemen and women into harms way in Afganistan and Iraq. This idea that although Al Queda is being fought in both places, doing it in Iraq is wrong is insane. It would be like fighting WWII and saying that battling Nazis is OK in Italy but really bad and immoral in Holland.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
People can also contact the Qantas media awards at:
barry.carolyn@xtra.co.nz
I have just sent them a message about garner and his reporting, I have also directed them to this blog, so they understand what the PEOPLE think of this twit. Make sure the prick doesn’t get anymore awards!
I have also sent a mail to garner and copied TV3 and TVNZ, including a link to this blog again.
This fuckwit has to packed up with clark and shipped off to Cuba when we send that detestable bitch after the election.
As NeillR said earlier, we must boycott all of TV3′s advertisers and get this out there, that they are being boycotted, until garner is jackbooted to kingdom come.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
just seen picture of kees keizer what a wanker looked like he didnt enjoy photo shoot not very photogenic well done rod to source the picture…looks gay.is micheal cullen????????????????????????????????????
November 4th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
This is harmless chat – also when does one man’s opinion become party policy?
Also what he said is completely correct – I apply the same at home – negoitate and rationalise with the 4 year old but at time I have to “pull the trigger” – with an appropriate (but not illegal) “minor” smack.
Looks like a misguided Watermelon beat up if the suggestions of the orginator of these outtakes is correct.
Imagine if this could be “loosely” linked as a green-led initiative – that could be a compelling shift for polling day – 50.5% I’d estimate.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Mickey Savage understood, “Where Britain goes we go, where she stands we stands” A tough stand it was too. The alternative was to roll over & let NZ become the rice bowl of imperial Japan. What would be the green solution to that? Or would it be compatible with their state authorised population control eugenic policy?
November 4th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Mindlessly regurgitating whatever you are sent is not journalism. At the very least Garner should have insisted on being given the whole tape before being willing to broadcast any of it. Then at least they could check out what was said within its context. The context can make a huge difference to the meaning.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
No No No Mickey, I respect your position, but you like toad are an apologist… I know that you don’t like that term, but you are, sorry young fella, but there you go.
I have been where you are mickey, held some fairly up there positions in the liarbour party. I know where you come from , and that you actually believe the froth that comes forth from your mouth.
Hey mickey I voted the SUP once, do you know who they were??
I spoke at rallies against the Nats.
BUT…. I have grown, the labour party i knew & respected has been hijacked by your present mob, it started with Prebble Douglas, Clark etc that put the boot into poor old weak DL.
Don’t try to preach the good fight to me sonny.
I know you.
PS no justification needed re the yanks whacking Iraq.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
“The invasion of Iraq was totally wrong.”
Opinions are easy. Anyone can do them. Even the left wing mainstream media and the braindead dipshits who suck up their lies.
Even intelligent and informed people who have the nous to despise the mainstream media have them. The invasion of Iraq was totally correct. See??
November 4th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Apparently Dunky G told RadioLive that the NZ Herald is going to out the person who taped all this stuff tomorrow.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Key has never said he wanted to go into Iraq “guns blazing”. Minor partners in the invasion were often given jobs around other aspects of the operation and partnering in the early stages would have no doubt been at that level of involvement (eg, Japan). New Zealand couldn’t possibly have mounted a major combat element – but since the beginning, SAS has been there and in Afghanistan, with Clark’s blessing, sometimes under UK leadership. As to the WMD, there was not one country on the security council except those with contracts with Iraq for oil and weapons that did not accept the presence of WMDs. All Sadaam had to do to avoid the war was provide documentation that those WMDs he ACTUALLY DID have had been destroyed. He did not. It’s probably really the case that the coalition should not have invaded Iraq but that’s much clearer in hindsight than it was when coalition troops were told to expect to lose more than 30,000 on the battlefield in the opening sequence of the war. Oh, yes. And that “civilised sophisticated Iraqi society” was run by people who put other people through shredders as part of daily police activity.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Obama’s running mate actually supported the war so it’s hard to see how these deliberately out of context musings from English with only vague relation to Iraq would have any influence on NZ-US relations.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Sent an email to dunx Don’t you think this scam has been done to death ? do you have a tape of
batman and Helen planning their neutron bomb attack on John Key ?Why
don’t you go out and do some real reporting rather than rely on copy
from labour party HQ,you loser wanker ?Nothing personal sunshine but you
are trawling new depths of investigative reporting,and have become a big
fat joke. And actually got a reply from the prik. “Thanks for watching loser wanker “. sadly I had to reply back that I never watch his loser channel,but listen occassionally on radio live. TV in NZ needs a credit crisis quickly.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
lindsey his name is kees keizer google his name when you go public with nazigreen views everthings public and mickey mouse savage fuck off…..
November 4th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
“Can any of you justify in 50 words, or 50,000 words for that matter, the invasion of Iraq by the US?”
Yes.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
To start off with NZ DID get involved with the invasion of Afghanastan and Iraq. You may recall we sent in the SAS and medical/support units. You may recall Air NZ planes flying troops into Iraq. You may also recall HC rewarding Corporal Apiata with his Victoria Cross after some heroic feat in Afghanastan. You may also recall our naval frigate Te Kaha patrolling the Gulf Sea in support of the Allied forces. The point is if the NZ government did not support the invasion of Iraq, no troops would have been sent. As for evidence of the presence of WMDs, the intelligence was later prove to be false after the invasion occured. I also have not heard war detractors bemoan the capture and subsequent trial of Saddam Hussein. No one has ever Praised Saddam for his toxic warfare on the Kurds either.
The NZ military however would never have been part of the front line invasion, simply because they are not trained for it. Instead they have been involved in other conflicts in OUR BACKYARD, such as East Timor, Bougainville and the Solomon Islands. This would have exhausted our front line troops anyway. We never asked the USA to help us and unlike Europe, we never ignored the problem either. Thus no lefty is going to tell me that Helen Clark has kept New Zealand troops out of conflicts.
Making this tape about the Iraq war is a little far fetched, and ignors HC flexing our military muscle in the Pacific.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Francis,
Totally right. Well said.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Had a reply from Dunk on my email to him.
1. Good for him on having the decency to reply, more than I can say for Fran Mould.
His reply is as follows
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Duncan Garner wrote:
> No need to whinge then mate – you get a few more votes – what are you crying
> about?
> my reply to that
Not whinging Dunk, just saying thanks for your input to the campaign.
you really are a beauty.
cheers
November 4th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Lots of playing the man re Duncan Garner. I like to think he’s been snookered like John Armstrong was.
Maybe the “next tape” will be a watershed moment – Headline “Neutron Bomb 2 defused – TV3 goes feral on Labour”
Waste of time all round while rome is burning! Oh for some certainty (either way) come Sunday morning
November 4th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
speaking of killing ,have those smiling indonesian arsewipes been exterminated yet ?
November 4th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
There was a generation who were prepared to face the reality of evil, and be prepared to lay their lives on the line, and fight for the FREEDOM we all treasure.
Soft cocked bleating like that offered by Toad and mickeysavage aren’t going to stop the maniacs like Stalin and Hitler and Pol Pot and Idi Amin and Saddam Hussein and Kim jong Il and all the other meglomaniacal dictators the world – particularly the extreme leftist – socialist world – has spawned over the past century.
My father was one of that wonderful generation. My grandfather and 2 great uncles at Gallipoli, then in the trenches in France in WW1; dad and 3 uncles and four cousins in WW2 – 2 cousins in Korea – several close friends in Malaya, Vietnam and other more recent peace-keeping missions.
You need to thank them and the Americans – and our ANZAC cobbers – that we’re not speking Japanese now, and that all of Europe are not speaking German. And this is not and anti-Japan or anti-German diatribe; just a statement of the facts.
So, you lily-arsed cowards, with your attitudes, you wouldn’t know when your freedom was being threatened if that threat jumped up and bit you on the arse.
Go back home to mum and hang onto her apron strings until you know what being a REAL MAN means – defend, with your life if necessary, those thing most precious to you: Family, Friends and Country – and Freedom itself.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Well said Don, thanks, took the words right out of my mouth.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
mickeysavage – ill give it a go
what was the situation in the middle east before the iraq invasion… ill tell ya.. everyone was becoming friends. there was talk of the middle east becoming a super state that could challenge the US.
SO, the US take out Iraq. the middle east gets divided and now muslims are fighting eachother. US is still top dog.
there ya go
November 4th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Where are you mickey & toad?
If you want to enter into a debate, have the nuts to get on with it!!!!
If you cannot keep up with life experience because you don’t have any, don’t start what you cannot finish.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Don the Kiwi (and others)
Hussein is not left wing. He was put into power by the Americans under Ronald Regan (Republican).
George Bush (Republican) invaded Iraq under the pretext that there were Weapons of Mass Destruction and that Hussein was a bad man. It is a shame that Regan put him into power in the first place.
Helen opposed this. Key supported it at the time.
English’s comments suggest that in the upper ranks of the National party they still support the invasion.
You guys all miss the point. I just wish that they were brave enough to say what they think about the war on Iraq so that the electorate can be informed.
It is like global warming. I bet most of you think that Global Warming is a conspiracy by some scientists so that they can keep their jobs and not the biggest threat to our planet that we face. How do you feel about Key welching on this? He used to be brave, now he sounds just like Helen. This must drive you guys crazy with your fixed view of the world, your great leader John, and, well this campaign he just seems to sound like Helen all of the time.
Arn’t you concerned?
November 4th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
i know how much the left love the middle east and embrace their islamic brothers.
the left who support feminists and gay marriage etc… which is also tolerated by the islam
November 4th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
mickeysavage – yea the yanks did put saddam in power! he kep his people down. they armed him and he occupied iran for 8 year with a war..
whats the theme here??
oh yeah – yanks stay top dog, arabs stay down. GOOD!!!
oh yeah – the CIA were acting under the other chosen one JFK
November 4th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
I don’t think the dirt digging is working.
Just heard that a senior Labour minister is close to losing their electrorate seat in what you would think would be a redder than red location.
If this is correct the marginal seats must be about to experience a massive swing.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Few may know this, but there was a handful of select and specialist NZ’rs, working in a covert and top-secret operation, setting up communications in Iraq, at least six months prior to the USA invasion.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Oh really mickey (you should be ashamed to take this name by the way you little shit)
Keep spouting the latest & current mantra, you do it so badly.
you want to be a dyed in the wool red, but are not sure how to do it,. so spout the latest crap enough and it becomes truth…keep at it (i shall call you shit because mickey is far far to good for you) shit.
Talk to me in a few years, shit.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
As did Joe Biden.
would have been quite an achievement given Saddam formally came to power in 1979 – two years before Reagan became Pres – which was when the Dems were in the White House.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
who saw that u/17 gal get a hat-trick tonight agaisnt Colombia??
Priceless moment!
November 4th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Heres something puzzling:
Isnt it interesting that today labour has pulled all of their other ‘The 2 johns’ ads and given all media weightings for them to the ’2 John’s Iraq’ ad.
You cant just change media weightings on the day. This is something that had to be planned weeks in advance – by the agency/media buyers of the labour party.
$20 says good old secret tape recorder dude has met with the labour party multiple times…… probably at a more covert location……
November 4th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
MIckey Savage – I am surprised to learn from you Ronald Reagan put Saddam into power. Reagan didn’t become president until 1981.
According to Wikipedia, Saddam came to power as undisputed head of state of Iraq in 1979, when Jimmy Carter was President. However, his rise to power really started in 1968, when Nixon was president, and Saddam became de facto leader in 1976, presumably when Gerald Ford was President.
So much for your theory. Unless you are suggesting that as the newly elected governor of California state in the late 1960s, Reagan wielded such enormous global power he could depose Arab dictators and install his chosen people.
And so much for Labour and their mudslinging.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Don the Kiwi thanks for your 9:36 post – there seem to be a lot of people that need reminding of this. Lefties in particular.
November 4th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I hope micky savage is an early victim of the upcoming financial crisis. But he sounds so wet around the ears he probably doesn’t have a mortgage.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
mickeysavage.
I don’t give a shit that Hussein was or was not left wing. He was EVIL. Most – not all – of the evil dictatorial murderers of the past century WERE left wing – read you history books.
Husein was in power long before the Americans backed him. They supported him in the war against Iran – that’s it.
There was no *PRETEXT* of WMD held by Hussein – he used them against the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs of the Tigris/Euphrates Delta.
All the world leaders of the day believed Hussein had WMD , as well as Clinton, the Democratic President of the time before GWB. Interestingly, a year after the invasion, dismantled parts of WMD from Iraq turned up on the black market in Holland.
Heilen sent troops to Iraq – the SAS and the Engineers – and Medical corps.
Now get this. No-one – not Bill English, not John Key, not George Bush – shit, not even me – likes war.
But when the chips are down, you need to make a choice.
George Bush decided – rightly in my view (others disagree) that Hussein should be stopped from his killinmg spree in his own country against his own people – shit!! he was killing around 100,000 of his own each year. He needed to be stopped.
Get you facts right mickey – youthful idealism doesn’t provide all the answers.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Difficult as it may appear to be to understand Bill’s point but I’ll have a go at spelling it out in words of few syllables for the outraged twats with tangled knickers. Challenge this if you can:
In the global environment as it stands, others have to believe that you are willing to pull the trigger. Otherwise you are a weak pushover. Being in a position of weakness means that you are defeated.
Believe it or not, since the acts that finished WW2, the trigger has not been pulled but the belief that someone is willing to pull it has kept the world in a relatively stable state. It doesn’t mean that the tensions are not there but as long as the threat is real I’m more comfortable than having a Chamberlain in the White House.
Exploit your enemy’s weaknesses is the first rule of the aggressor.
nuff said
November 4th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
further to that… old keez seems to like to take organisations to the electoral commission.
below old keesy quoted specific rate card values. Wonder how he got that. Where would he get access to media buyers to quote exact figures…. i would love to know if theres a connection there
http://www.elections.org.nz/files/2008-25_EMA_Stop_Mallard.pdf
this smells all kinds of dirty. kees campaigning and taking people to task on labours behalf…..
November 4th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Key needs to try another tack here.
Perhaps he should congratulate Clark on the her initiative in sending the SAS into Afghanistan over a month before there was a UN mandate.
Clark is a blatant Hypocrite!
She sends our troops to Iraq and then has the audacity to suggest the Nats might have sent troops to Iraq.
She condemns the US for the liberation of Iraq when UN mandates allowed it, yet effectively invades Afghanistan with our SAS, with no such mandate.
This makes Clark the most Militaristic PM we had in modern times and she has the cheek to cast herself as a latter day Mahatma Gandhi.
Play her at her own game. “Clark the warmonger” will soon have plane loads of body bags flying home from Kabul.
Off course I guess we don’t want to discourage them when they do something right for a change.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Here’s a rule of thumb
We shoot them, we live
They shoot us, we die
Anyone who doesn’t understand that is a fool because that is the way the world has always worked and always will.
I consider myself bloody lucky to be the first generation in my family whoes OE hasn’t included shooting people.
And I thank the USA for that, not the meally mouthed UN.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
can someone tech savvy please find out where http://www.devnet.org.nz/ – a site keez is involved with is hosted please.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Whaleoil has a heap of info on The Keizer here:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/?q=content/secret-taper-and-his-labour-links
Seems like Keizer has plenty of links to the Labour Party.
I guess he works in the dirty tricks dept?
November 4th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
I wonder who Micky Savage really is?
Lets have a look at the evidence;
1 An unyielding adoration of Klark
2 A piss poor understanding of history (suggesting that our “Micky” is a mere youth)
3 The taking of a prominent ex Labour PM as a screen name in the hope that it might wind up some from the right.
4 Mindless regurgitation of Labour party spin and lies.
5 An inability to think things through for himself
6 An affinity width rainbow Labour…and finally…
7 Naked stupidity.
Ladies and Gentlemen, “Micky Savage” is none other than James Sleep!
November 4th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Tylerdurden – did he register as a third party? – price of all this “prime time” coverage of his tapes must be a pretty penny
November 4th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
You are all quite right.
Isn’t Wkipedia a wonderful thing. Let me review my previous post.
Don the Kiwi (and others)
Hussein is not left wing. He was put into power by the Americans and supported and armed by the republicans in the 1980s.
George Bush (Republican) invaded Iraq under the pretext that there were Weapons of Mass Destruction and that Hussein was a bad man. It is a shame that Regan put him into power in the first place.
Helen opposed this. Key supported it at the time.
English’s comments suggest that in the upper ranks of the National party they still support the invasion.
You guys all miss the point. I just wish that they were brave enough to say what they think about the war on Iraq so that the electorate can be informed.
It is like global warming. I bet most of you think that Global Warming is a conspiracy by some scientists so that they can keep their jobs and not the biggest threat to our planet that we face. How do you feel about Key welching on this? He used to be brave, now he sounds just like Helen. This must drive you guys crazy with your fixed view of the world, your great leader John, and, well this campaign he just seems to sound like Helen all of the time.
Arn’t you concerned?
November 4th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Saddum was nuts… but his sons were worse. evil cruel men
November 4th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
BigBruv – might be Kees himself?!?
November 4th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
I’m on a hiding to nothing here, because most commenters seem to be aggressive warmongers.
But Bush’s invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with human rights. It was all about gaining another (they already have Israel) client state in the Middle East because US oil is fast running out. So steal someone elses.
Anyway, here’s my take on tonight’s news item re English’s taped comments.
Interesting, also, that English would not front to defend himself. What he said on that tape is rather different form what Simon Power and John Key have been saying publicly. But no-one seems to want to front.
Whose agenda do you believe, Kiwibloggers? And do you really want out young people killed in resource wars in a world where many resources are fast running out. Look to renewable, not to stealing someone elses!
November 4th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
micky – dont ignore my essay on the real cause of the iraq war. no hidden agenda from me
and global warming is a socialist scam
November 4th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Hey Don, Hussein may have been evil but it was to his own people. After 10 years of sanctions Madeline Albright was asked if the 500,000 deaths attributed to the sanctions between Gulf War 1 and Gulf War 2 was worth it. Yes she answered. Hmmmm. That’ a 9/11 every month for 10 years in Iraq. Think they a bit pissed off with the West?
George Bush went into Iraq to finish his fathers job – ‘Hey dad look at me’.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
TOAD – heres the interesting thing. the yanks havent stolen oil. the only one suggesting the yanks should steal oil is Obama!!!!
pros of invading IRAQ
1 – destabalise region, stopping them from becoming a super state that can challenge the US
2 – 300,000 US soldiers on Irans doorstep
3 – how many terror attacks in the US since the invasion? where do terrorists go to fight – iraq/afghanistan.
cons
5000 dead soldiers.
a shitload of money
tell me if any of that is incorrect toad.
and dont label people warmongers cause they have a different point of view..
November 4th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
LC – well done regurgitating idiot leftist rhetoric. fuck me! Bush went to war to impress his dad..
thats right up there with – bush caused 9/11 (even though hes “dumb”) and got away with it.. while genius bill clinton cant get sucked off in his own office without the world knowing.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Toad
Why would anybody be interested in the views of the Greens when we all know that your party hates EVERYTHING American with a passion?
Perhaps if your party was not so blinded by this hated your points might have some validity but when you use the Standard as supporting evidence to your views then it means you no longer bother with the truth, you guys and are just as low and desperate as Labour when it comes to winning this election campaign.
The words “Green” and “integrity” just do not belong in the same sentence.
One more thing Toad, just why is it that you guys have been keeping Comrade Bradford away from the media during this election campaign?
November 4th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Yeah Toad but who invaded Afghanistan!! With no UN mandate and cuddled up to Uncle Sam!!!!!
Helen “Genghis Khan” Clark.
I better stop this or I might end up voting Labour!
November 4th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
LC
Once again, you lose the facts in the left wing fog.
It wasn’t Madelaine Albright who imposed the 10 years of sanctions against Iraq – it was the UN – that bunch of lefty gutless suck-holers. It was the UN who made the Oil for Medicine deal, which led to all the corruption by UN employees.
The US led invasion put and end to that. No wonder all the lefties are pissed off – their lucrative little scam was stuffed.
But look. I’m sick of trying to teach history to you young fellas who don’t understand why you have your manhood.
Go back to school and discover the truth.
OH SHIT !!! HANG ON – OUR LEFTY LABOUR-SATURATED Education system has distorted history.
Sad day for all. Don’t go back to school – learn from books written before 1999.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
The real reason that we occupied Iraq is simple.
OIL.
Cheaper petrol for everyone! Hurrah.
The reason we occupied Afghanistan. Well chunks of it.
HEROIN
Just so that the the Us could be the biggest drugs dealer in the World!
Global Warming/Climate Change. If it is so dangerous why aren’t we reverting to sail ships?
Why is EADS building the biggest passenger plane ever seen in the World?
Why is there a new Terminal5 at Heathrow, and future plans to put an extra one in the Thames?
Why the development in all NZ’s airports? Why did the Canadians want to invest for the long term in AIA ltd.
It is simply a Guilt Tax. Period.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
hey, toad. where in that tape is the word “iraq” ? Given that the taping took place as Russia was invading Georgia, don’t you suspect there might be more at issue than this old saw? Had America not been around and widely seen as willing to “pull the trigger” what effect do you suppose the moral outrage of the EU might have had on Russia?
November 4th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Another swing and a miss for Labour.
The Labour party is going down in flames on 8 November.
Nothing can save them now.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Read Toad’s take on Bill’s comments. Recipe for conflict: take a comment with no context, twist it to achieve the worst possible interpretation, add a bit of padding and start shooting wildly from the hip. Wouldn’t it be nice if the devious twat who took the recording was honest enough to front up with some context if not a face. So much easier to throw something into the ring and then run away and hide while others fight the battle for you
November 4th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
“US oil is fast running out” is the most politically naive statement on this entire thread. The battle in the US about oil now is whether or not to BEGIN NEW DRILLING for oil or continue to rely on OPEC. The US is nowhere NEAR running out of oil.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Nookin,
Our devious friend has already been outed:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/?q=content/secret-taper-and-his-labour-links
November 4th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Dime, you’d be surprised what people will do to prove to their parents that they are worthy of their attention. I Know I didn’t believe it as a reason either. It was Yank who told me that GW would finish Hussein before GW was elected. I laughed at it too. But now….
Don, Allbright said that she thought that the price of the sanctions – 500,000 deaths was OK. Ignore the UN perspective, the US could have stopped it. No ideology left/right comes into it. It’s a moral issue.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Also – Bush never said the human rights violations in Iraq were the REASON for the invasion. He said the human rights violations in Iraq under Saddam were EVIDENCE that Saddam was evil. Was he not? This was no benign dictator. This was a man who took the aid sent to him from around the world and used it not only to build palaces but to starve the children of Iraq to make a PR point. Nice guy. Sorta like Pol Pot, but with a little more finesse. And the same French backers.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
The two Johns in Iraq ad is getting a real hammering tonight. The Labour Party must be absolutely astonished at its luck in timing these ads just when, coincidentally, a tape pertaining to the issue is released. I mean, how could they ever have known?
November 4th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Obama supported the sanctions and wanted them to contnue till Saddam somehow lost power. Since there was no chance of that apart from US military action he would have passed power to one of his psycho sons. So those sanctions were going to be there for a long time.
It’s really odd how the same people who massively overstate what little support the US did give to Saddam refuse to acknowledge the real and far greater support Saddam got from France, Russia and China. The very same countries who funnily enough opposed the war.
November 4th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
LC – so one of the 300 million americans told you bush would go after saddam.. and thats proof enough for you?
what the fuck?
did ya even read my reasons??
November 4th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
All this to distract the voters about the dire state of the books and economy.
A billion dollars has vanished and it’s not a story for the TV 3 Munchkins.
And Helens Police will be re-arranged soon!
November 4th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
LC.
So what is your position?
On the one hand you are pissed with the yanks for invading Iraq – even though they were really just finishing what Stormin’ Norman Schwartkopf wanted to do in Desert Storm – keep going to Bagdhad and capture Saddam.
But the UN stopped him and imposed sanctions and no-fly zones and protected areas, which Saddam constantly violated.
So now you are saying the Americans could have stopped the corruption if the UN – how??
By invading and taking charge??
But that’s just what you are bagging the yanks for doing.
Where’s your consistency? Where’s your argument?
You don’t have either.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Any chance the Indonesians can send their firing squad over here for some practice to sight their AK’s in on Sunday? They could start at TV3 and then borrow the new BMW’s for a quick trip to Mt Albert with the barrels still warm.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Glut M.
Bang on.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
all of you need to watch is two videos LOOSE CHANGE2 and END GAME by alex jones both free on you tube
if you give this a chance you will wake the fuck up
i read most of your comments and know government propaganda is working well
i never lie,and what is on these two vids is the most important info you will ever see
info most of you need
November 4th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Colin said:Yeah Toad but who invaded Afghanistan!! With no UN mandate and cuddled up to Uncle Sam!!!!! Helen “Genghis Khan” Clark.
That’s one of the reasons I’m suggesting people should vote Green, not Labour (or national). Greens would keep NZ out of all foreign wars, unless there is a UN mandate (and not an “after the event” one as was contrived with Afghanistan).
November 4th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
breaking news henry makes 12 changes to test for scotland and hands captains role out like candy kevin me a la mu(sory for spelling)is captin why why why investigate that penny brightbulb?
November 4th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
if you do an IP address lookup on http://www.devnet.org.nz, you get the IP address 64.34.168.89. This is an IP in the US. Tracert shows it’s hosted by a company called Peer 1 (http://www.peer1.com) – a hosting company.
If you do a reverse lookup on 64.34.168.89, you don’t get back to http://www.devnet.org.nz, but instead another name of raymond.drc.org.nz. That implies the domains devnet.org.nz and drc.org.nz are administratively linked (same organisation).
If you look at http://www.drc.org.nz, you see more sites, including another variant called http://www.dev-zone.org. Contact details on http://www.drc.org.nz look to be correct (verified at internic whois).
If you want to find who registered the .nz domains, go to http://www.melbourneit.com.au and click on whois at the top, and enter the domain you want to find.
The person who registered drc.org.nz is the Director of the Development Resource Center. Devnet and DRC have the same postal address.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Toad: we would not need to worry about a foreign war if that happened. Jeanette pushing her capital gains tax. Helen wanting to sell her rental properties. Kapow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 4th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Nobody seems to be denying the legitimacy of the recordings- English included.
Despite the recordings being obtained in a ‘covert’ manner, the content of his private discussions gets at important issues: If the people behind National have certain views about international security and military operations, they should be open about them- I’d certainly like to know what they are before I decide whether to vote National or not, I would not have liked to find myself in the position of having supported a party which would have deployed troops to Iraq, and I’ve thought that all along.
Don’t get me wrong, Labour seems no better, except of course that they have a track record which speaks for itself- kudos for not deploying combat forces to Iraq, bummer about the engineers and SAS etc.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
hat-trick anyone?
November 4th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
tylerdurden:
my whole big analysis of that devnet site was swallowed by this site… too many links I guess?
Anyway. devnet is a project of the Development Resource Center. http://www.drc.org.nz. It has same postal address, and same DNS administrative realm.
The actual site is hosted in the US with Peer 1.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
“I’m on a hiding to nothing here, because most commenters seem to be aggressive warmongers.”
You’re on a hiding to nothing because you’re not talking to your usual audience of naive uninformed school children. We know the facts, and we know that you and the left and the mainstream media are all one and YOU’RE ALL FULL OF LIES, DISTORTIONS SMEARS AND BULLSHIT.
Here are just a few examples of your ceaseless misrepresentations taken from your very first paragraphs. Your following paragraphs are the same. Pure left wing smears. Hate driven lies. Your objective is power and you will crucify anyone who threatens your march to that power. You are always lying.
“But Bush’s invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with human rights.”
It wan’t Bush’s invasion. It was a coalition of 49 democratic countries. It was approved by the US congress including 81 Democrats.
“It was all about gaining another (they already have Israel) client state in the Middle East”
It was about establishing a beach head for democracy in the Middle East and making future terrorist operations there and in other totalitarian states impossible. The best remedy to terrorism is democracy. The best outcome for the Middle East is democracy. The best outcome for Iraq was democracy.
“because US oil is fast running out.”
Oil is not “fast running out” and it is in fact very unlikely to ever run out. It will merely become one day an uneconomic energy source. OPEC is today cutting back on production because sales have fallen. Oil shortages are a myth propagated by Environmental Marxists for political advantage. Shut the fuck up about oil. I’ll make my own choices on energy, I don’t need liars, communists and power freaks making them for me.
“So steal someone else’s.”
No oil has been stolen. Firstly, only the most astonishingly economically illiterate goon would ever suggest that the expenditure in Iraq ever validated the oil that the US is accessing there. Secondly, the Iraqis are selling or giving access to oil to whosoever they choose, including the US’s political enemies China and Russia and Vietnam. The US has no control over Iraqi oil and merely buy it on the open market the same as every other country. Another lie from the left.
This is all your kind do all day on Kiwiblog. You saturate the discussion with so many lies they are unanswerable. Because people just do not have the time to deal with them. The fact remains we know. We know you’re lying. About time you woke up to the fact that on Kiwiblog, your wasting your time. That’s why as you say, you’re on a hiding to nothing.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Dime, if you are talking about your 10.15 post as your reasons then:
TOAD – heres the interesting thing. the yanks havent stolen oil. the only one suggesting the yanks should steal oil is Obama!!!!
>>No they have Production Sharing Agreements –
pros of invading IRAQ
1 – destabalise region, stopping them from becoming a super state that can challenge the US
>>Was never going to happen.
2 – 300,000 US soldiers on Irans doorstep
>> Why? Iran has never done anything??
3 – how many terror attacks in the US since the invasion? where do terrorists go to fight – iraq/afghanistan.
>>Yeah easier to attack US troops in countries where the terrorists can blend into the population.
cons
5000 dead soldiers.
a shitload of money
>>Just what Bin Laden wanted to happen.
tell me if any of that is incorrect toad.
and dont label people warmongers cause they have a different point of view..
I only mention the conversation with one of the 300m americans to illustrate a popular view held at the time. As I said I don’t beleive it myself. It would be too strange to imagine.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Don, I see that you are confused with Gulf War 1 and Gulf War 2.
In GW1 with Bush Snr, Iraq was attacked for invading Kuwait. Good call.
In GW2 with Bush Jnr, Iraq was attacked for having WMD (Not Found), support and links to Al Queda (No links). Bad call.
My comments are consistent with the actions leading to GW2.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
redbaiter
dime
don
its not worth the effort.
brainwashed = brainwashed
November 4th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
I don’t have a problem with Saddam having his neck elongated, but surely it would have been cheaper and less disruptive to just send in the CIA to pop him off? The place is a hell of a mess now. So is Afghanistan.
While they’re at it pop Mugabe as well. Maybe we can get a team down here to sort out certain…
Selling it as search for WMD or Al Quaida or whatever is BS. Just tell the world “hey I’m just finishing Daddy’s job”, and the world will be quite happy with that.
November 4th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Hmm should I email Mr Garner with Mr Campbell’s dirty little ‘not so secret’ secrets, that some how seem to stay out of the media, after all Mr Garner seems to believe the media should run everything it gets from sources.
What a limp dick of a exclusive this was from tv3
November 4th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
rolla – what secrets are these pray tell – a hint?
November 5th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Toad let me teach you something about world history.
In the 1930′s a Charlie Chaplin impersonator became leader of Germany. Unfortunately he seemed to enjoy invading countries and killing minority groups. Now it is well established that during his annexation of of the Rhineland (an industrial area that boarders Germany and France), Austria and Czechoslovakia, the impersonator (who we will from here on refer to as “Adolf Hitler”) did not have the forces to fight off France or Britain – if they chose to intervene. Indeed his troops were under orders to retreat if either Britain or France did mobilise their forces. Unfortunately, both France and Britain seemed to share your attitude that you should not “pull the trigger”. As such Germany was allowed to sieze territory and resources, becomming powerful enough to conquor France and isolate Britain. I further note that when Germany made an aggressive move toward Italy (prior to their allying with Hitler), Italy chose to send its army to face them. Hitler immediately ordered a retreat. The point I would like to illustrate here toad is that the Nazis could have been delt with far more easily, were someone to “pull the trigger” on them earlier, prior to Hitler et al delivering a knee-capping to the collective free world.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Labour destroyed the New Zealand economy and they think diversionary tactics like this will get them reelected. Dream on. The country is in a deep recession and the pain hasn’t even begun yet. Labour are on a one way hiding to nothing.
I look forward to Hels becoming unemployed on 8 November. An added bonus, Cullen out on his ass as well.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:27 am
rolla – what secrets are these pray tell – a hint?
lets just say I was working bar at an event he attended & offered me a proposition I didn’t want a bar of. He was very smashed, but the staff were warned before the event by the owners that he might make these sort of suggestions, he’d done it before in many parts of the country when on tv3 work
November 5th, 2008 at 12:33 am
The rights and wrongs of starting the latest war in Iraq asside, it has provided one positive aspect for world peace.
The fact that every nutter in the entire middle eastern region was drawn to Iraq to have a crack at the yanks has created an opportunity to deal with these terrorists on one battle ground.
These nutters are being eliminated from the equation, and as far as I am concerned it is a good thing.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Nobody should ever take the Greens seriously as far as national defense is concerned. How CAN you take them seriously when their policy, should they ever get enough power not to care what anyone thinks and therefore be honest for once, is to have no national defense?
If the Greens ever get that sort of power, effectively dismantle our defense forces, and we end up needing them, they dont have to worry about any outside aggressor; there will be plenty of domestic aggressors lining up to shoot them.
If we dont have guns, no one will be scared of us, so no one will be mean to us.
Seriously. That is the multilevel thinking of most Greens supporters I have met. And with every batty, loony, and flat out stupid thing the Greens leadership says, the less credit anyone is willing to give them for having more brains than their bleating supporters.
Stick to issues of the environment. If a green party actually did THAT, people like me might actually chuck my party vote their way. But no, it seems the explicitly “green” party has to also be the most adolescently idiotic one too. Whats worse is that even on the environment they lose the plot and end up doing nothing and helping no one; anyone remember possum peppering as an alternative to 1080?
The Greens have no idea on national defense, no idea on the economy, no idea on infrastructure, or anything else a party wanting to LEAD New Zealand should take seriously. Most parties would have come up with more good policy by ACCIDENT than the Greens have managed to generate in their too many years of existence.
The Greens are the party of spotty teenage emo-tards, brainwashed school kids, and adults who refuse to grow-the-fuck-up.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Shit I was expecting a neutron bomb but we get yet another Po Ha that fails to go off.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:17 am
Toad Said:
That’s one of the reasons I’m suggesting people should vote Green, not Labour (or national). Greens would keep NZ out of all foreign wars, unless there is a UN mandate (and not an “after the event” one as was contrived with Afghanistan).
You miss my point Toad.
As responsible members of the international community of democracies, at times we have to make choices that put moral imperatives ahead of legal technicalities.
I believe Clark made the right call on Afghanistan.
BUT she is a HYPOCRITE.
She has the bare faced audacity to accuse National of being militaristic when -I repeat.
She effectively invades Afghanistan with our SAS, with no UN mandate while hammering the US for liberating Iraq when UN mandates allowed it AND at the same time supporting that mission with KIWI troops while accusing the Nats of wanting to support it with KIWI troops.
And they call John Key Slippery!
November 5th, 2008 at 7:47 am
So much for freedom of speech, even private conversations will be broadcast. Devious means of getting information and Helen Clark does not even condemn the unethical way of getting information. Welcome to the fourth Labour government ie a police state.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:05 am
Well said gulag
If Labour gets back in welcome 10 years of legislation to control speech.
Sorry haven’t time to post links but google ‘doug christie canada to see the future
November 5th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Helen Clark has put more kiwis into combat zones than ANY other PM since WWII including deploying combat troops to Iraq! She put more troops through East Timor alone than we ever sent to Viet Nam. That deployment cost four lives which according to her reckoning is blood on her hands.
These are elementary FACTS that any so called “journalist” could have used to fact check her lying sneering ass in ten seconds.
But they prefer to present on selected set of views and claim that they are letting people make their own minds up.
The media have gotten a taste of their own power, and they like it.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Murray,
Sadly good investigative journalism is a very rare thing in this country now. We have guys like Kitchin and Wishart who dig around but most of the other journo’s like Dunky are more interested in repeating certain politician’s talking points right on cue.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Thats why they’re still here, because they can’t get jobs overseas with reputable media where the big money is.
Small time hacks.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Apologies if this has already been noted, but at 200 comments I have not read them all.
How come someone is not pulling labour up when they say they know nothing about the tapes? It cannot be coincidence that they have been running the flip flop ad regarding John Key and Iraq the last couple of days only to have a tape mentioning “pulling the trigger” being released at the same time.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:47 am
How much advance notice does TV need to programme a particular series of ads? How far ahead was this planned? And while we are on the subject of ads, is the mother who doesn’t trust JK:
a) a mother
b) a NZ resident or was she plucked from overseas like that typical NZ family some months ago?
November 5th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Nookin – usually a fortnight in advance in an accepted minimuim.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:02 am
What an encouraging thread. More and more new contributors, who are pissed off with the Heleban and the MSM, who know the facts that the MSM are not giving us. IN with the NEW (media), OUT with the OLD……..it can’t happen soon enough……
November 5th, 2008 at 10:09 am
mickeysavage,
“Hussein is not left wing.”
Yes, he was. The Baath Party was an Arab socialist party.
“The Baath Party, formally the Baath Arab Socialist Party: Political party and movement influential among Arab communities in the Middle East, especially in Syria and Iraq.”
http://www.damascus-online.com/se/hist/baath_party.htm
As has already been pointed out Saddam rose to power and became President BEFORE Ronald Reagan. I can show multiple sources to prove this, including Encyclopedia Britannica.
Toad,
The US invaded Iraq because there would never had been ANY long term chance of peace in the ME with Saddam and his sons in power for decades to come.
No, it wasn’t about “human rights”, it was about changing the face of the ME after Sept.11. The status quo there was no longer acceptable.
But NEITHER was it about oil. The US’s oil is NOT running out. Moreover the US does not even source most of it oil from the ME anymore.
Your full of shit. Don’t you have some pregnant women to go and lecture about how much of Gaia’s resources their little monsters are going to consume???
November 5th, 2008 at 10:29 am
And the Stuff poll has a 60% MAJORITY agreeing to this statement: Lame – clearly a last-minute smear attempt
What do you think of the latest secret recording of Bill English?
A. Shocking – it reveals the true face of National – 23.1%
B. Lame – clearly a last-minute smear attempt – 60%
C. It’s interesting but not scandalous – 16.9%
So you can easily take from that, that B + C (77%) are a great indicator to the way everyone feels: It’s another fucking NON-EVENT against National, but probably back firing big time against Liarbor!
November 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Whaleoil has the answer.
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/?q=content/helen-needs-answer-question#comments
Clark must be asked if ANY SAS personal have served in Iraq.
If she says no. Hopefully Whaleoil can front up with the goods and prove she’s a liar.
If she says yes, she is a blatant hypocrite and should resign forthwith,
If she says she never comments on SAS deployments, we can assume the answer is yes (as she is free to comment re:Afghanistan) and she become at the best a hypocrite and at the worst a slippery deceitful two faced hypocrite.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
She’ll just say our SAS troops were on exchange & working for the US/UK. as she didn’t send a contingent, if you asked managed to find out where some of our SAS serve when on exchange you’d raise a few eyebrows, I bet we’ve had troops serve with the British SAS in Northern Ireland, and there’d be many many other places where events have gone down that haven’t been widely acknowledged or even known about
November 5th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Kiwis, and Aussies have always been part of liason with UK Special Forces. And RN, and RAF. And the Green Army.
Rhodesia, and South Africa also used to participate back in time.
Fijiians, and Samoans etc. were nearly all trained through NZ.
NZ Troopers in Iraq. Not in their own formations or Command. Afghanistan, absolutely.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
rolla.
I have an SAS asociate who occasionally advises confidential SAS engagements.
The SAS were never in Northern Ireland.
No other denials.