10 Responses to “The secondary battle”

1. Pete George (13,194) Says:
   August 19th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

   But to the contrary almost every List MP would love to be an Electorate MP.

   That is at odds with Bruce Edwards’ claims:

   ‘Fake’ electorate candidates

   Green Party co-leader and MP Metiria Turei is set to stand as a ‘fake electorate candidate’ in Dunedin North for the general election. Despite officially throwing her hat into the ring to become the Member of Parliament for the electorate, she won’t actually be asking for your vote, and will instead use the local contest to encourage Dunedin electors to give the Greens their party vote.

   Of course, Turei is hardly the only such candidate – politicians from all political parties – especially the minor parties – will essentially be doing the same. Candidates across the country will be entering local electorate contests with absolutely no intention of trying to win, but instead will simply be using the local contest as a platform to promote their party in general.

   Unless the “absolutely no intention of trying to win” is based on party directives rather than the wishes of the candidate. Except that Turei (and Brash) are party leaders seemingly happy to float in on the list.

   I think it’s odd that any candidate would stand for an electorate without a strong will to win the seat – but politics and politicians can be odd. Does the quest for party power override personal power?

2. s.russell (1,137) Says:
   August 19th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

   Pete, I suspect Turei not trying to win Dunedin North is not because she would not like to, but because she knows she has no chance of doing so, and therefore the practical thing to do is campaign for the party vote.

3. s.russell (1,137) Says:
   August 19th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

   While the iPredict ratings are interesting, many of them are based on a very small number of people wagering just a few dollars and are seldom traded (eg trades in Labour Ohariu stock average 1.2 a day). In these cases the probabilities are based not on “the wisdom of crowds” but on a tiny and unrepresentative sample of opinion (like an opinion poll of 10 people). I would not regard them as much more than entertainment unless there is a very large and active market for that stock.

4. Pete George (13,194) Says:
   August 19th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

   a.russell – yes, she presumably accepts she has no chance and is just using it as an opportunity for more publicity for party votes, but it’s an odd system that’s evolving. Not just this but the nod/wink arrangements between parties as well. Some pundits and obviously parties think the electorate vote is a charade they need to go through, but I’m not so sure the people who vote are ready for their electorates to be devalued so much.

   It’s ironic that most voter opinion rates electorate MPs as the most representative and dislike, even despise the list MP system, but the parties give the party/list vote the most attention.

5. RKBee (1,320) Says:
   August 19th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

   I doubt very much if Little will win New Plymouth on his performance so far, and from the very low turn out numbers he is attacting to his campaign meetings around the New Plymouth district. With focus on the Rugby World Cup coming up he has very little time left to make his mark. Dyunhoven before him got a lot of National supporters votes, Little won’t.

6. peterwn (1,623) Says:
   August 19th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

   Even before MMP, the main parties fielded candidates in ALL seats even the hopeless ones. AFAIK National fielded candidates in all seats up to 2002, and also AFAIK National’s headquarters reimbursed lost deposits in 2 or so Maori seats. National gave up on the Maori seats for the 2005 election.

   In pre MMP days, standing in a hopeless seat was a good ‘learning experience’ for aspiring politicians, and better placed them to win selection to winnable seats. The bigger ding the hopeless seat candidate made in the majority, the better.

   With MMP, candidates of hopeless seats are expected to be party’s ambassadors and round up the all important Party Vote. The ability to lift the party vote would be a significant factor at list ranking time, at least for parties who list on merit, rather than on cronyism, allocation of so many lesbians, etc.

7. Luc Hansen (3,698) Says:
   August 19th, 2011 at 11:47 pm

   Phew, that was lucky!

   I looked at the headline and thought DPF was in his teacher bashing mode again and started typing.

   Then the truth sank in.

   He was talking about that second tier of MPs who actually have to bother with an electorate!

8. Lee C (4,121) Says:
   August 20th, 2011 at 6:41 am

   Interesting you entered the issue on the premise that something was happening ‘again’, Luc – it almost suggests that you are approaching the issues from a less than unbiased viewpoint.

   Interesting, because, otherwise, historically, this prior viewpoint would have been very difficult to detect from some of your previous comments. :0)

9. Pete George (13,194) Says:
   August 20th, 2011 at 7:05 am

   It should be remembered that some electorate seats are the primary battle for small parties – Te Tai Tokerau, Epsom and Ohariu. With them the electorate vote is potentially worth far more than the party vote.

   Can voters get bold and create a few more high value electorates? That would be the best way to shake up the political status quo.

10. Pete George (13,194) Says:
    August 20th, 2011 at 7:40 am

    Dunedin deserves better than two party loyal Labour MPs.

    Next week I’ll be announcing how Dunedin can get better.

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