144 Responses to “General Debate 28 January 2012”
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January 28th, 2012 at 9:29 am
No Need to Panic About Global Warming
The worm is turning……
A candidate for public office in any contemporary democracy may have to consider what, if anything, to do about “global warming.” Candidates should understand that the oft-repeated claim that nearly all scientists demand that something dramatic be done to stop global warming is not true. In fact, a large and growing number of distinguished scientists and engineers do not agree that drastic actions on global warming are needed.
Although the number of publicly dissenting scientists is growing, many young scientists furtively say that while they also have serious doubts about the global-warming message, they are afraid to speak up for fear of not being promoted—or worse
In the American Physical Society it is OK to discuss whether the mass of the proton changes over time and how a multi-universe behaves, but the evidence of global warming is incontrovertible?”
Every candidate should support rational measures to protect and improve our environment, but it makes no sense at all to back expensive programs that divert resources from real needs and are based on alarming but untenable claims of “incontrovertible” evidence.
Claude Allegre, former director of the Institute for the Study of the Earth, University of Paris;
J. Scott Armstrong, cofounder of the Journal of Forecasting and the International Journal of Forecasting;
Jan Breslow, head of the Laboratory of Biochemical Genetics and Metabolism, Rockefeller University;
Roger Cohen, fellow, American Physical Society;
Edward David, member, National Academy of Engineering and National Academy of Sciences;
William Happer, professor of physics, Princeton;
Michael Kelly, professor of technology, University of Cambridge, U.K.;
William Kininmonth, former head of climate research at the Australian Bureau of Meteorology;
Richard Lindzen, professor of atmospheric sciences, MIT;
James McGrath, professor of chemistry, Virginia Technical University;
Rodney Nichols, former president and CEO of the New York Academy of Sciences;
Burt Rutan, aerospace engineer, designer of Voyager and SpaceShipOne;
Harrison H. Schmitt, Apollo 17 astronaut and former U.S. senator;
Nir Shaviv, professor of astrophysics, Hebrew University, Jerusalem;
Henk Tennekes, former director, Royal Dutch Meteorological Service;
Antonio Zichichi, president of the World Federation of Scientists, Geneva.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204301404577171531838421366.html
January 28th, 2012 at 9:32 am
I am guessing most people saw our Penny on One News the other night? Hilarious
January 28th, 2012 at 9:43 am
Fascinating documentary about charter schools in Chicago. http://educationactiongroup.org/a-tale-of-two-missions
Made by Juan Williams.
January 28th, 2012 at 9:51 am
Aid group tells of torture
Medecins Sans Frontieres has suspended its work in prisons in the Libyan city of Misrata because it says torture is so rampant some detainees have been brought for care only to make them fit for further interrogation.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10781743
The “Arab Spring”in all its glory.
Wait till the MB takes over in Egypt.
January 28th, 2012 at 10:36 am
The “Arab Spring”in all its glory.
Yes Andy. Shame those of us who knew this would be happening were told to shut during the Libya debates by all the useful idiots who thought it was all about a spontaneous grass-roots uprising against the oppressive regime. Shame also those same people won’t as usual learn anything but instead continue to think they were right and this is just an anomaly.
Meanwhile Syria continues apace with the exact same dynamics unfolding, with the same things happening inside that country and the same things happening in the blogs and the media and the same useful idiots playing out the same arguments and assumptions. History repeats when one forgets it. The strange thing is, these useful idiots just had some history a few months ago and they still forget it. Talk about dumb.
Still, if one lives in some fantasy world where the US/UK never do anything wrong except save people from oppression, what else can one expect from such profound idiocy?
January 28th, 2012 at 10:47 am
So do we need some sunlight on this bit of bad behavior.
Allegedly Magistrate and mate involved in hit and run. Ran away without stopping.
Magistrate linked to hit and run
Last updated 05:00 28/01/2012
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A community magistrate is understood to have been travelling with the man accused of a fatal hit and run.
The Waikato Times understands the magistrate was a passenger in the car involved in the incident in which William Gregory Hoskins, 26, died after being run over on State Highway 1B at Matangi early on January 15.
January 28th, 2012 at 10:49 am
Even Israel Admits that Iran Has Not Decided to Build a Nuclear Bomb
January 28th, 2012 at 10:51 am
The fight goes on: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/romney-boosted-in-florida-by-new-poll-numbers-strong-debate-performance/2012/01/27/gIQAlg3OVQ_print.html
January 28th, 2012 at 10:52 am
Other_Andy
Breakdown of the first seven old white men on your list of famous deniers:
>>Claude Allegre has been caught both misrepresenting and making up data. http://bellaciao.org/fr/spip.php?article99206
>>J. Scott Armstrong published an attack on the scientific-ness of climate-change-related forecasting methods used by climate science in something called “Marketing Papers (2008)” (not available online for some reason) and was shot down, claim by claim by actual climate scientists: http://interface.highwire.org/content/39/4/353.full.pdf+html
>>Jan Breslow is a medical doctor who’s done genetics research, but has no apparent expertise or training in climate science.
>>Roger Cohen is a recent retiree of the Exxon Mobile Company.
>>Edward David was President of Research and Engineering for Exxon Corporation, serving until 1985.
>>William Happer is paranoid: “This [of climate scientists] is George Orwell. This is the ‘Germans are the master race. The Jews are the scum of the earth.” http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/01/12/22506/
>>Michael Kelly is a Kiwi with connections to General Electric Corporation and the industrialist Laird group http://www.csap.cam.ac.uk/network/michael-kelly/
>>William Kininmonth’s 2004 book launch was organised by the Lavoisier Group and was chaired by Hugh Morgan, the President of the Business Council of Australia. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=William_Kininmonth
January 28th, 2012 at 10:55 am
Fran O’Sullivan injects some rare common sense into the media and political hysteria over the sale of the Crafar farms
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2012/01/osullivan-on-crafar-farms.html
And Winston Peters’ hypocrisy ought not be underestimated; Sir Michael Fay hasn’t exactly been his bosom buddy over the years, but at least he’s not Chinese!
January 28th, 2012 at 10:55 am
Scott, please now give us the breakdown of the seven most famous warmists, including the infamous liar, head of the IPCC.
January 28th, 2012 at 11:18 am
http://youtu.be/vaMZ4NyNCwI
Very interesting, when Doctors go looking for research papers (any paper) that show HIV causes AIDS and none can be found. One scientist even asks the man himself, Luc Montagnier, who supposedly discovered the virus, and even he doesn’t have an answer, or can point to a study.
It’s looking like a lot of companies are making money off the proposition that HIV causes AIDS, but there really is no proof.
January 28th, 2012 at 11:24 am
NZ is small after all: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10781775
January 28th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
Would it be presumptuous to say that NZ may win a game of cricket, with Zim at 19/5?
Every chance they’ll fuck it up yet.
January 28th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
Nice picture on Whaleoil, DPF.
Were you going to post about this later?
January 28th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
Manolo. he’s trying for his 72 virgins whilst still alive.
January 28th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
he IPCC.
Fletch (2,333) Says:
January 28th, 2012 at 11:18 am
“Why I Began Questioning HIV” from the House of Numbers Deluxe Edition.
Five people (Below) provide their account of why they began to question the HIV = AIDS = Death medical model:
Fletch, you should look at the money made on cholesterol drugs with no eveidence ever that they are necessary and the look at the evils of premarin and what it did to women for may years, again without proper research.
January 28th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Crafar Farm slaes.
AGAINST
“The lily is being gilded by the announcement that Landcorp will manage it on behalf of the Chinese buyers. Everyone knows that there is the world of difference between being the owner and the property manager.” – Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa secretary Murray Horton
“We cannot sell our way to a brighter future, yet this Government seems determined to do exactly that.” – Labour leader David Shearer
“Today a great wrong has been done to New Zealanders. Our land is not just a commodity, it is a living, breathing part of our history, our culture, and our people. We just sold a piece of ourselves.” – Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples
“As food prices rise globally, selling off our productive land … to overseas bidders is economic folly.” – Green Party agriculture spokesman Steffan Browning
” Our country is being run for the benefit of foreign companies and the international money industry.” – NZ First leader Winston Peters
All the usual peter pullers.
January 28th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
Excellent. Iran is likely to ban EU oil exports immediately rather than allowing the EU to phase them in gradually over a six month period. Great. Love it.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/01/27/uk-iran-sanctions-oil-idUKTRE80Q0GS20120127
I assume lots of people will say how wicked Iran is to do such a thing at this particular time. How dare they, I assume they will say.
January 28th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
‘I assume lots of people will say how wicked Iran is to do such a thing at this particular time. How dare they, I assume they will say.’
Quite right reid.
Course we should just stop fucking about with the towelheads and tell them to front up with the oil and stop rattling their rather little sabres.
Any other options they chose will result in swift nuclear annihilation of their centuries old culture and also result in us waiting briefly for the half life of very active isotopes to reduce their activity before we move in our own fellows to get the oil flowing again.
Then again we could piss about with the gentle approach for a little longer!
January 28th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Sinopec is Iran’s main buyer of crude oil so Tehran has managed to avoid the sanctions aimed at reining in the ayatollahs’ nuclear ambitions and they’ve doubled down and given the middle finger to the EU.
January 28th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
See your Sinopec and raise you 11 CSG’s cha!
January 28th, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Thing is Johnboy the west spilt the blood and then the generals and their partners have grabbed the oil.
January 28th, 2012 at 1:48 pm
I think the generals are onto CSG too Johnboy.
January 28th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
Capitalist arseholes die just the same as peasant footsoldiers in the cleansing burst of radiation cha!
January 28th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
CSG = Carrier Strike Group twit!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_strike_group
The Yanks have 11 of them.
January 28th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Gah!, the mind reading skills are having an off day.
ps, numpty!
January 28th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
Never mind cha as the nukes rain down around you, you will be able to say, just like me, “I told you so”.
January 28th, 2012 at 1:58 pm
NZ continues to breed young killers: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8409871/men-remanded-over-lower-hutt-stabbing
January 28th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
With the generals actively spiking sanctions Johnboy I’d say they’re looking to find out how far they can push the west.
btw, 4-0 to the Aussies.
January 28th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
@Scott Chris
” …..seven old white men on your list of famous deniers ”
1. You are showing your colours by calling them deniers instead of sceptics, a typical ‘lefty’ ad hominem tactic. I have, by the way, no idea what age and skin colour has do with it I suppose you are just following the left’s identity politics strategy..
2. Scientist that question a theory (And AGW IS a theory) are doing what scientists are supposed to be doing, that doesn’t make them deniers.
3. The so called questionable business and industry relations you list don’t impress me much, it doesn’t lower their scientific standing or the work they have done or are doing.
These real scientists have (Together with 1000’s more) stuck their neck out. They, as Dr. Chris de Freitas has found out, will and have been the target of smears, bullying and intimidation by Mann and his IPCC club who are an embarrassment to the scientific community. Those political hacks have made up data, destroyed data and changed data to fit the narrative. While they are jet setting around the world, attending ‘conferences’ in Rio, Copenhagen an Durban and are being heard by politicians keen to follow popular opinion, the real scientists are busy testing theories and collecting and comparing data.
Here are the facts:
1. The climate will and always has changed. Humans have no or very little effect (Neglectable) on the climate.
2. The long term warming trend we are seeing has been going on for hundreds of years (0.5 ºC per century), isn’t accelerating and doesn’t seem to be connected with the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.
3. All other AGW pointers such as glacier growth\melt, sea level rises\falls etc. do not show any deviance from the normal trends.
You can of course disagree with the conclusions of the data presents but your first line (seven old white men on your list of famous deniers ) shows that you are squarely in the camp of the ‘political scientist’ (In other words, the non-scientists.).
This means it is of no use arguing with you, you have made up your mind, no matter what the data says.
January 28th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
You can of course disagree with the conclusions of the data presents but your first line (seven old white men on your list of famous deniers ) shows that you are squarely in the camp of the ‘political scientist’ (In other words, the non-scientists.).
This means it is of no use arguing with you, you have made up your mind, no matter what the data says.
Pot Kettle black
January 28th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
” …..seven old white men on your list of famous deniers ”
Make it eight. I’m an old white man (what the fuck is wrong with that Scotty? Are you a bloody racist?)
I’m prepared to deny that day isn’t night or black isn’t white depending on the position of the opposition at the time.
January 28th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Never attempt to discourage natural selection amongst the indigenous peoples Manolo.
January 28th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
But nothing quite like this O_A.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7286/full/464141a.html
http://www.tierramerica.info/nota.php?lang=eng&idnews=3337
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/07/climate-scientist-death-threats-australia_n_872829.html
January 28th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
Aotea Square folk should occupy some Crafar land. Let the Chinese sort ‘em out …
January 28th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
“Let me tell you something that we Israelis have against Moses. He took us 40 years through the desert in order to bring us to the one spot in the Middle East that has no oil !”
– Golda Meir
January 28th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Occupy Anything should be down the wharfs supporting the union there!
They should be occupying the Crafar Farms!
Don’t make too many suggestions or the buggers will be applying for travel grants, meal vouchers, taxi chits and accommodation allowances.
January 28th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
On the failure of the IPCC climate model:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364682611003385
► The IPCC (CMIP3) climate models fail in reproducing observed decadal and multidecadal limate cycles.
► Equivalent cycles are found among the major oscillations of the solar system.
► A correction for the projected anthropogenic warming for the 21st century is proposed.
► A full empirical model is developed for forecasting climate change for a few decades since 2000.
► The climate will likely stay steady until 2030/2040 and may warm by about 0.3-1.2 °C by 2100.
January 28th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Andy I called them Old White Men because that’s what they are.
And you know how stubborn and set in their ways old men tend to be.
Even Einstein spent the latter part of his life in denial.
And chances are, that as the majority of the old white men you list are over seventy, a significant proportion of them are likely to be suffering from dementia.
January 28th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Johnboy, would you describe yourself as an open minded and flexible thinker or are you pretty much set in your ways?
Or put it this way. When was the last time you changed your mind about a major issue?
January 28th, 2012 at 3:06 pm
I guess you’re not aware of the huge “Green Industry” push that GE had been leading for the last few years, or their endless lobbying for various types of alternative energy sources, especially with their CEO sticking his tongue in Obama’s ear for the last four years. GE has trumpeting all this via such unbiased sources as NBC news, which has run an almost endless stream of “documentaries” and news items on the Great Global Meltdown that we’re sticking our kids with. For those lefties who’ve been playing the whole Corporate-Control-Of-The-Media schtick for the last few decades, it should be noted that NBC was owned by GE up until just last year.
Yeah, yeah. You could read about this months ago in Tim Blair’s piece – Comments From The Panic Room. Tim lists some of them, here’s one example:
As Blair points out:
Actually Tim has another one:
Actually that’s what a warmy wrote to Tim.
Just more of the same old, same old. The delegitimisation game of the Left: Gabby Giffords all over again. We of the left can say whatever awful things we like and that just demonstrates how passionate we are and how much we care. If you get equally passionate as a right-winger you’re expressing violence.
January 28th, 2012 at 3:10 pm
Oh, and Andy, do you see any irony in the following accusation:
or in tom’s
January 28th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
As it turns out there was a follow-up to the great Death Threat Horror of 2011. Another journalist dug into the emails and found that:
No! Really?
As Tim Blair comments again:
Heh, heh, heh.
January 28th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Why just this morning Scotty.
Should I purchase the Grants at $33.99 or ignore the special and buy the Grouse at $44.99.
Despite my Scottish heritage taste won out over pecuniary considerations and I purchased the Grouse.
I call that open-minded, flexible thinking while bearing in mind the financial penalties.
Unfortunately something that climate change religionists seem to have lost sight of.
January 28th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Andrew Bolt writes with prescient clarity: http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/importing_poor_migrants_to_wait_on_fussy_aussies_is_not_smart/
January 28th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Scott Chris Says:
Have you ever met an Old Asian Man, or an Elderly Indian Woman?!! Ever gone to the dairy and tried using an EFT-POS card for a purchase of $4.75 and have an old Indian lady point at the “minimum $5 sign” repeatedly?
Even Old White Women are much more stubborn and obstinate than Old White Men! (As I’m sure many Old White Men would attest to.)
Stop being a racist.
January 28th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Other_Andy 2:00 pm. It’d be nice if an incoming Republican administration went after the US side of the Climategate affair.
cheers
David Prosser
January 28th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
Yes, at the height of the Bernanke and Obummer spendathon, Immelt was sending emails out to all employees telling them to “follow the stimulus money”, and saying that GE was working with the government to ensure that there was loads of money pumped into all of the green initiatives, such as wind turbines. GE is a very Democrat leaning company, especially under Immelt, who sees himself as some kind of rockstar, lips firmly planted on Obummers ass.
January 28th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
Women of all races and ages don’t bother arguing with Scotty tristanb as he is such an obvious prat, they even ignore him in bars when he is spending his dole money, so the only yardstick he has is to come on KB and argue with us old farts.
Very sad really.
January 28th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
This book looks worth reading:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100132831/how-london-became-the-censorship-capital-of-the-world/
January 28th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
Old Farts johnboy?
Old wise farts. Scott is a teen. They remove teen’s brains at 13 – you get them back about 23. Remember 23?
January 28th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
I thought the racist rent boy posted a comment a while ago that he was a grandfather .
January 28th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Scott Chris (3,505) Says:
January 28th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Andy I called them Old White Men because that’s what they are.
And you know how stubborn and set in their ways old men tend to be.
Even Einstein spent the latter part of his life in denial.
And chances are, that as the majority of the old white men you list are over seventy, a significant proportion of them are likely to be suffering from dementia.
Perhaps Scoot at that age they have learned wisdom and humility. Both of which you lack at present and probably for the forseeable future over the next 50 years.
January 28th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
They remove teen’s brains at 13 – you get them back about 23. Remember 23
Correction, some of them get them back at 23, for some its a lost cause but the rule applies in general.
January 28th, 2012 at 4:46 pm
tristanb – if you look what you just quoted, you will see that I said:
“how stubborn and set in their ways old men tend to be”
No mention of white. That was your oversensitive assumption.
However, I did allude to the ethnicity of the 16 scientists whose opinions Other_Andy was claiming added legitimacy to AGW skeptics fallacious arguments, because the overwhelming majority of educated old white men are politically conservative.
And there is none so closed minded and resistant to new ideas as an Old Conservative.
January 28th, 2012 at 4:46 pm
They remove teen’s brains at 13 – you get them back about 23. Remember 23?
That’s very true Steve I’d never looked at it like that but you’re right. 24 for me it was. And just thinking about it isn’t it bizarre that its in those precise years when many of us almost all of us are setting our direction which sometimes lasts for only ten years then changes and other times lasts for one’s whole life. And it’s all done without our brains being in the right places.
Crikey.
No wonder what happens to the world, happens.
Is it true do you think the negative effects arising therefrom as observed in societal behaviours and trends, become greater with each passing generation? This lack of brains business could explain for example the phenomena of the dumbed-down education we have now where a degree-level knowledge today is about what level of knowledge a high school student from the better schools would have had in the 1800-early 1900′s. It also explains the incredible numbers of people who never recover their brains, for example all the 30-40 even 50 year old losers who for whatever reason still think with the depth and emotional maturity level of a 13 year old. There are a hell of a lot of them now and it’s not they’re retarded it’s cause at that age they fucked chemically with their mind which is OK when you do it a few years later but not at that age. Their brains have gone forever. Not to mention their immature emotions cause anger and harm and damage to others. Not to mention that, at all.
Cheers Steve, good insight.
January 28th, 2012 at 4:49 pm
Davos all for frugality – if it’s painless
And it’s not just Governments that are attuned to the need to cut out the excess at a time when global unemployment is heaped as high as this year’s record snowfall in Davos.
And frugality? Well, it’s all relative here in the Swiss Alps. CNN estimated the average cost per delegate is $40,000; registration $20,000, flights $6000, transfers $4000, food $2000, hotel $3000. And there’s lots of conspicuous wealth on show.
There are blind spots too. How about requiring the wealthy to pay more in tax, rather than simply urging them to make donations to worthy causes? “If you change the law we will pay the taxes,” sniffed David Rubenstein, of private equity firm Carlyle Partners.
Self-interest has not been entirely extinguished then. And it is notable that, while there has been a good deal of talk about the dangers of growing inequality, there has been much less discussion about what to do about it.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10781676
As everything changes everything stays the same.
January 28th, 2012 at 4:54 pm
reid (9,789) Says:
January 28th, 2012 at 4:46 pm
They remove teen’s brains at 13 – you get them back about 23. Remember 23?
That’s very true Steve
And even worse bloody stupid HULUN gave them the vote at 18.
There was a good reason why it was at 21. The “how stubborn and set in their ways old men tend to be” of scotts aquaintance were much wiser than head screwed doppy females without babes and their followers were ever going to be.
January 28th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Hell 23. I remember. I was father of one and at 25 father of two. Paid for them all myself apart from ‘Child allowance” whole $3/week rising to $6/week just before it was canned. Them were the days!
Still paying now, as you help your children and grandchildren unless you are a loser.
Guess I should have been born stupider or later or browner so I could have got most of what I paid for for free!
January 28th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
…bloody stupid HULUN gave them the vote at 18.
She wouldn’t have done that V2 if they all voted conservative when they were 18-21. Naturally the media at the time never raised that saliant point, did they. Perhaps the media’s not actually evil, perhaps they just don’t have any fucking brains either.
Fuck where does it end? Mercy.
Guess I should have been born stupider or later or browner so I could have got most of what I paid for for free!
How do you think I feel Johnboy. I’m right in the last year of the baby boomers and by the time my turn comes round for my super handout for which I’ve paid taxes all my life everyone younger than me would long ago have thought fuck this, I’m not paying for those wankers, so I wouldn’t be surprised, you know, to see that happen. Not surprised at all. Tell you what though, you follow the big industries rise and fall and correlate them with the baby boomer blip, you can see a huge market in retirement lifestyle products of every kind for the foreseeable future – well next twenty years anyway.
Of course the possibility all the hedge funds die off in a market meltdown along with all the corporate pension funds might put a slight dampener on those proceedings.
I don’t know about you Johnboy but in my retirement I plan to be that cranky contankerous old man who sits on the porch with his blunderbuss nearby. That sounds like fun to me. Plus a young wife, of course.
January 28th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
>>”If you are searching for wisdom, you are wise. If you think you are wise, you are a fool.”
Lord Chesterfield
>>”It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.”
Walter Lippmann
>>”Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
Albert Einstein
>>”The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance – it is the illusion of knowledge.”
Daniel J. Boorstin
>>”The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
Socrates
January 28th, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Been following this baby boomer thread. It does seem that you may luck out reid as by the time Johnboy, Steve, Viking & I have had our hands out for a few years there will probably be diddly squat in the kitty when your turn comes. We will, however, organise a hearty vote of thanks & a card with a box of chocolates in recognition of the taxes you will have paid.
I’m uncertain that your plans for a young wife will lead to great happiness either. Right at the time of your eighteenth birthday when you were probably getting fuzzy feelings in your tummy & ticking the box for Labour was the peak of your sexual prowess. It’s been all downhill since then & even if you lay off the communion wine you may need the help of a couple of iceblock sticks & a few bandaids to overcome gravity.
When you look at it, nature is very unfair.
January 28th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
Right at the time of your eighteenth birthday when you were probably getting fuzzy feelings in your tummy & ticking the box for Labour was the peak of your sexual prowess.
nasska as you know Churchill said “if you’re young and not a liberal you have no heart, if you’re old and don’t vote conservative, you don’t have any brains.”
I’m pleased to report that even when I was eighteen I have never ever voted or wanted to vote liberal, which means I have no heart. The good thing is, this means to me, anything is OK. I’m a bit like Falstaff, you see. Not immoral, not moral, simply and purely amoral, like a transparent-white-black gossamer wrapped in sin and goodness at one and the same time.
So to me, when the time comes and I haven’t received what I think is my fair share, why I’ll just go out and take it, without a qualm. This is why I’m slowly piecing together my satellite-busting giant laser cannon in the hills behind Eastbourne nasska. Just in case I don’t get what I think is my fair share.
And I think viagra will help with the other thing if required so all future bases are covered at the mo, fingers crossed.
January 28th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Scott says. ”It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.”
Walter Lippmann
That’s why it passes you by scotty. Beam me up please.
January 28th, 2012 at 6:35 pm
nasska; its great to spend. Not enough but that’s ok.slowly using up all my tax losses. another couple of years and I’ll need to think up some other way of not paying tax. Yep us oldies are schemmers all right.
Oh and reid
Not quite sure how these are related!
This is why I’m slowly piecing together my satellite-busting giant laser cannon in the hills behind Eastbourne nasska. Just in case I don’t get what I think is my fair share.
And I think viagra will help with the other thing if required so all future bases are covered at the mo, fingers crossed.
does your giant laser need the viagra? Just so you can get your share mind?
January 28th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
Oh dear here we go again. The filth have moved back ion.
Protestors reclaim grassed area
Saturday, 28, Jan, 2012 4:51PM
Occupy Auckland protestors have smashed down fences and once again reclaimed a grassed area of Aotea Square.
They were evicted from their makeshift campsite earlier this week.
After a march from downtown Auckland, the more than a hundred protestors held a countdown, then sprinted to Aotea Square from Wellesley Street.
A few started attacking the fences and pushed them over, and that quickly escalated.
The fences are now bent and broken and the protestors are back on the site.
The handful of police present have not taken any action yet.
January 28th, 2012 at 6:53 pm
Well bugger me reid but despite the fact you seem to be an old cantankerous bastard from Eastbourne that only says G-D when he cusses. I kind of like you!
Hope you won’t get too pissed off when my Wainui “Valley to Vulva” tunnel goes through to the new port.
From what I can see from the plans it terminates in your backyard just to the right of your spa pool.
I’m sure we can reach an mutually satisfactory agreement as to payment for my Ladies using your facility for hygiene purposes.
January 28th, 2012 at 6:55 pm
Oh and reid: Not quite sure how these are related!
If it’s OK V2, I’d rather focus on my laser cannon plan for I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be wise to start casting around for a few sponsors.
The basic plan is to shoot down an actual satellite then call Beijing, Moscow and Washington and threaten to shoot down any others within the southern hemisphere’s orbit unless they pay us whatever we decide.
But the bloody thing’s proving quite expensive to build even though I can get a lot of the parts from The Warehouse.
I dunno. Would you be interested in a part-share?
January 28th, 2012 at 7:07 pm
Fuck. Its old doddering pricks night, tonight!
January 28th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
Something to do with Winston getting back I guess!
January 28th, 2012 at 7:11 pm
APPLE are VERY RICH nasty arseholes(which is why i use android)
http://ct.cnet-ssa.cnet.com/clicks?t=1117952018-6f0f83bcbd5ee4f0f2b2c23c58f4a37a-bf&brand=CNET-SSA&s=5
January 28th, 2012 at 7:12 pm
Hope you won’t get too pissed off when my Wainui “Valley to Vulva” tunnel goes through to the new port.
Johnboy before you begin tunneling let’s liaise re: the route. Of course I have extensive geological studies of the area since it has to withstand the anticipated retaliation from the Sino-Western-Russian alliance I fully expect to arise in response to my initial phone call, so I can show you how to avoid any unpleasantness re: tunnel collapse, is my point.
Something to do with Winston getting back I guess!
Ok seriously, what do we think Winston is going to do apart from take Key apart all the time every single question time he gets and Liarbore will give him a lot of slots.
Peters knows destruction par excellence and Key has never had that thrust upon him. I predict he will be shell-shocked for awhile. Then come back – but Peters is dirty, real dirty, and cunning.
January 28th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Jesus. 6509 comments. Everyone of them complete and utter nonsense!
Don’t you just luv this blog!
Thank you David!
January 28th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Good grief, it’s no longer climate scientists being threatened with violence.
Sheesh. What is it with these violent leftists. Mind you, when the Great Orator tells people that they need to bring a gun to a knife fight – plus other eliminationist rhetoric – what can you expect?
January 28th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
Now now reid. There is no way that any of my girls exiting the tunnel would want to come to grief on your point arisen or otherwise.
I’m sure we can can reach a mutually satisfactory agreement on access to and from the hole.
January 28th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
@Griff
“Pot Kettle black”
Great argument Griff.
And the data you base your argument on is….?
@Scott Chris
Oh, and Andy, do you see any irony in the following accusation:
“a typical ‘lefty’ ad hominem tactic”
No I don’t. Where is the ‘irony’?
You do know the difference between attacking the ‘man’ and attacking the argument or the method, don’t you?
And there is none so closed minded and resistant to new ideas as an Old Conservative.
First of all, I couldn’t care less if the scientist was a ‘conservative’ or a ‘hip’, ‘cool’ and ‘progressive’ person like you, it is the data and the strength of the argument that counts.
Race, sex, age and (assumed) political preference shouldn’t figure in a scientific argument.
Unfortunately, Mann and his gang have, like you, politicised a scientific argument.
When the science doesn’t support the policy anymore, the policy should change, not the science.
But of course, this is not going to happen (Or not for a while yet.).
Too much riding on AGW.
January 28th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
Making it easier for kiwis in Aust
Saturday, 28, Jan, 2012 5:44PM
The government is pushing the Australians to make it easier for kiwis who live across the Tasman long term to get residency.
That is to solve problems like kiwis affected by the Queensland floods not being able to access Australian government grants.
Prime Minister John Key is in Melbourne this weekend, meeting with Julia Gillard and attending a joint cabinet meeting tomorrow.
He says about 100 thousand kiwis are left effectively stateless because they do not receive support from either government.
He will talk to Ms Gillard about it but cannot give a timeline on it.
Not sure what 100k Kiwi’s would do if they all needed to come home because Aussie doesn’t pay them a benefit, but then most of them, work and its the Aussies that are on benefits.(either here or there)
January 28th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Saving the Suckers of the South Pacific – withdraw from Kyoto
By Viv Forbes, Carbon Sense Coalition
Australia and New Zealand should follow Canada and immediately withdraw from the failed Kyoto Protocol.
With Canada deciding to cut and run, no country in the Americas bears Kyoto liabilities. And with the announcement by Japan that it will not renew its membership, there will be no Kyoto bunnies in Asia. It is time for the two lonely suckers in the South Pacific to also withdraw.
http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18&sid=40d3af6dd15e1aab0cc59ed595c22637&p=39277#p39277
January 28th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
because You post all sorts of random links to bullshit
links to sites run by lobbyists in the states that are spin not science even you must know that
your argument consists of any scrape of unproven or outright bullshit you can find
All major scientific bodies in the world believe that the evidence supports AGW
Most governments admit it is a problem
Yet you of course know better
as to your great green lefty conspiracy of world domination by carbon tax
yeah right
January 28th, 2012 at 7:52 pm
And about old codgers and things.
This kinda sums it up.
Bill Cosby: “I’m 76 and Tired”
I’m 76. Except for brief period in the 50′s when I was doing my National
Service, I’ve worked hard since I was 17. Except for some some serious
health challenges, I put in 50-hour weeks, and didn’t call in sick in nearly
40 years. I made a reasonable salary, but I didn’t inherit my job or my
income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, it looks as
though retirement was a bad idea, and I’m tired. Very tired.
I’m tired of being told that I have to “spread the wealth” to people who
don’t have my work ethic. I’m tired of being told the government will take
the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy
to earn it.
I’m tired of being told that Islam is a “Religion of Peace,” when every day I
can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and
daughters for their family “honor”; of Muslims rioting over some slight
offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren’t
“believers”; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning
teenage rape victims to death for “adultery”; of Muslims mutilating the
genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur’an and
Shari’a law tells them to.
I’m tired of being told that out of “tolerance for other cultures” we must let
Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries use our oil money to fund mosques
and madrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in Australia , New Zealand ,
UK, America, Canada , and Europe while no one from these countries are allowed to
fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia or any other
Arab country to teach love and tolerance..
I’m tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global
warming, which no one is allowed to debate.
I’m tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help
support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ
rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses
or stick a needle in their arm while they tried to fight it off?
I’m tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of all
parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful
mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting
caught. I’m tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.
I’m really tired of people who don’t take responsibility for their lives and
actions. I’m tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination
or big-whatever for their problems.
I’m also tired and fed up with seeing young men and women in their teens and
early 20′s be-deck them selves in tattoos and face studs, thereby making
themselves un-employable and claiming money from the Government.
Yes, I’m damn tired. But I’m also glad to be 76.. Because, mostly, I’m not
going to have to see the world these people are making. I’m just sorry for
my granddaughter and her children. Thank God I’m on the way out and not
on the way in.”
There is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us
sends it on!
January 28th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
If you are interested in this issue, you should read this excellent editorial from the Wall St Journal and suggest others do too:
Quote:
No Need to Panic About Global Warming
Wall St Journal- Editorial
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … on_LEADTop
There’s no compelling scientific argument for drastic action to ‘decarbonize’ the world’s economy..
Editor’s Note: The following has been signed by the 16 scientists listed at the end of the article:
http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32&sid=40d3af6dd15e1aab0cc59ed595c22637&p=39281#p39281
January 28th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
After hearing that one of the patients in a mental hospital had saved another from a suicide attempt by pulling him out of a bathtub, the director reviewed the rescuer’s file and called her into his office.
“Ms Bright, your records and your heroic behaviour indicate that you’re ready to go home. I’m only sorry that the man you saved later killed himself with a rope around the neck.”
“Oh, he didn’t kill himself,” Ms Bright replied. “I hung him up to dry.”
January 28th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
I imagine that it has been raised before but I have heard that the occupy squatters have moved back into Aotea square.
Time for the water cannons and tazers I think.
January 28th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
We have far greater problems to dwell on than climate change
the Arabs are heading into a dark age
the ascendancy of china
Oil is going to drive more war
fundamentalism is growing
wealth is being collected into a smaller and smaller group
inequality is growing
The USA is heading into decline
common Europe is self destructing
All these things are more immediate then climate change and could be more catastrophic to our way of life
January 28th, 2012 at 8:14 pm
Watts Up? Who Killed Climated Change?
It’s probable that the reaction to a politically unwise cap and trade bill, and tireless work of an obscure weather forecaster from the northeast corner of the Sacramento Valley killed climate change.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmichaels/2012/01/27/watts-up-who-killed-climated-change/
January 28th, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Other Andy says:- “Unfortunately, Mann and his gang have, like you, politicised a scientific argument.”
You were the one who introduced today’s political theme by reproducing the unsubstantiated claim that:
“In fact, a large and growing number of distinguished scientists and engineers do not agree that drastic actions on global warming are needed.”
Firstly, all I did was point out that far from being ‘distinguished scientists’ these men are self interested dinosaurs with a political agenda.
Secondly, where is the evidence for this “growing number”?
Fact is, this crisis requires governmental intervention which conflicts with commercial interests as well as contravening the fundamental religious tenets of free market capitalism.
*That* is the root of the problem.
January 28th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
Griff says:- “All these things are more immediate then climate change and could be more catastrophic to our way of life”
You’ve got it the wrong way round. Of all the balls the human race is currently juggling, this is the one we must not drop.
January 28th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
Abe and Esther are flying to Fiji for a two-week vacation to celebrate their 40th anniversary. Suddenly, over the public address system, the Captain announces, “Ladies and Gentlemen, I am afraid I have some very bad news. Our engines have ceased functioning and we will attempt an emergency landing. Luckily, I see an uncharted island below us and we should be able to land on the beach. However, the odds are that we may never be rescued and will have to live on the island for the rest of our lives!”
Thanks to the skill of the flight crew, the plane lands safely on the island. An hour later Abe turns to his wife and asks, “Esther, did we pay the IRD the $5000 we owed from last year yet?”
“No, sweetheart,” she responds.
Abe, still shaken from the crash landing, then asks, “Esther, did we pay our American Express card yet?”
“Oh, no! I’m sorry. I forgot to send the cheque,” she says.
“One last thing, Esther. Did you remember to send cheques for the Visa and MasterCard this month?” he asks.
“Oy, forgive me, Abie,” begged Esther. “I didn’t send those ones either.”
Abe grabs her and gives her the biggest kiss in 40 years. Esther pulls away and asks him, “What was that for?”
Abe answers, “They’ll find us!”
January 28th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
You obviously live on a different planet to the rest of us then Scotty. Would you like us to beam you up to ours.
The real one?
January 28th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
Worth looking at this video.
Julya is very angry and rightly so.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/labor-figure-kim-sattler-named-as-gobetween-in-protest-20120128-1qmre.html
January 28th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
@Griff
Jeez Griff, you are really going over the edge with your comment at 7:51 pm.
You are calling LEADING scientists lobbyists….?
Professor Antonino Zichichi, theEmeritus Professor of Advanced Physics at the University of Bologna, past President of the Italian National Institute for Nuclear and Subnuclear Physics, past President of the European Physical Society, past President of the NATO Science Committee for Disarmament Technology, President of the World Federation of Scientists, President of the “Enrico Fermi Centre” is a lobbyist and his argument consists of unproven or outright bullshit?
“All major scientific bodies in the world believe that the evidence supports AGW”
They don’t Griff.
Look it up.
Political activists, politicians, a small group of bullying ‘political scientists’ and opportunists want us to believe that AGW is real.
There is no evidence.
Hydrocarbon use is uncorrelated with temperature. Temperature rose for a century before significant hydrocarbon use. Temperature rose between 1910 and 1940, while hydrocarbon use was almost unchanged. Temperature then fell between 1940 and 1972, while hydrocarbon use rose by 330%. Also, the 150 to 200-year slopes of the sea level and glacier trends were unchanged by the very large increase in hydrocarbon use after 1940. Again, none of these trends has accelerated during the period between 1940 and 2007, while hydrocarbon use increased 6-fold.
The shrillness of some of the proponents of AGW is another sign that they are losing the argument.
January 28th, 2012 at 8:46 pm
Scott we have a mild maritime climate
A mountainous land mass
and are surrounded by ocean
NZ is lucky
not so continental climates More extremes possible due to climate change
Would not invest into Bangladesh
except dike Building
January 28th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Scott Chris
…”Of all the balls the human race is currently juggling, this is the one we must not drop.”…..
Up until now the USA, followed by the rest of the Western world have been the leading users of energy. Putting aside the fact that I am a ‘skeptic’, you & your mates are asking the rest of us to accept a shitty standard of living in order to save the planet from the ills you see coming.
What about the developing world that we share our air with? China, India, Brazil have huge populations who intend to attain the levels of affluence we enjoy today & they don’t give a stuff about the climate. They have reinforced this by word & deed.
IF Armageddon will result from emissions resulting in “climate change” why not just prepare your soul for what you expect to meet? If you & Henny Penny are correct you may as well bend over & kiss your arse goodbye for NZ’s fraction of a percentage of emissions are not going to change the actions of the rest of the world one way or the other.
January 28th, 2012 at 9:06 pm
More likely to die from lack of oxygen and all the new population uses O2 at a gretaer rate.
Plant lots more trees.
January 28th, 2012 at 9:14 pm
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/cloud/what-will-you-do-when-the-us-comes-for-you-20120125-1qhc1.html
January 28th, 2012 at 9:46 pm
nasska says:- “you & your mates are asking the rest of us to accept a shitty standard of living in order to save the planet from the ills you see coming.”
That’s one of the skeptic alarmist myths. Economies *can* continue to grow and people *can* continue to use fossil fuels. We simply need to make efficiency gains through better technology and elimination of waste.
The difficult part is getting all the different parties to share the burden and act in concert so that one economy doesn’t have an unfair advantage over another on a cost of energy basis.
January 28th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
IF Armageddon will result from emissions resulting in “climate change” why not just prepare your soul for what you expect to meet? If you & Henny Penny are correct you may as well bend over & kiss your arse goodbye for NZ’s fraction of a percentage of emissions are not going to change the actions of the rest of the world one way or the other.
The key to knowing, the absolute clincher to knowing that AGW is bullshit, is knowing what the alternative energy sources are that exist and are known, which don’t cause pollution and which aren’t promulgated.
And to establish whether such exists all you have to do is understand Nikola Tesla’s work and life and what happened to his technology afterward.
His free-energy technology exists but it can’t be metered and that’s why it’s not disseminated. And it’s perfect for AGW, isn’t it. So how come, given this guy invented AC electricity against Edison’s impractical and useless DC, do the environmentalists never talk about this towering inferno of the very greenest man on the planet. How come the Greens aren’t using their political voices to demand this man’s technology is seriously and urgently investigated since if one wants an answer to AGW this is it, whichever side you’re on.
The sad thing is, it can’t be metered, so it’s rather difficult to see where it fits into the current energy models. But still, if the Gweens had any bwains, they would look into Tesla and agitate for his research and tie it to the AGW movement and demand globally I mean, that hundreds of millions of dollars were put into it, seriously, not pretend. That’s all it would take to prove the concept. I kid you not. Read about what he did and who he was, if you don’t believe me. Seriously.
So why don’t the AGW people do this.
That’s how you can tell it’s a bread and circus show, just like pro sports are and just like Hollywood is. Just on a global scale. Same lockstep. Amazing how much airtime it takes up on here.
Why?
Does anyone change their opinion?
To me it’s all a bit like Dallas, except JR hasn’t been shot yet, and I’m just waiting to see that episode so I can take an educated guess as to how it’s all going to turn out but this time, it’s the planet. So I’m very excited indeed.
January 28th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
given this guy invented AC electricity
Correction, discovered AC electricity. Caught waxing lyrical.
January 28th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
reid
Americans were duped into having nuclear power stations providing electricity “too cheap to meter” in their own backyards. There is a lot of buyers remorse out there now. Beware of offers that sound too good to be true, as they usually are.
January 28th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
Zichichi is regarded as an effective communicator who succeeded in focusing attention on the scientific world in the Italian media. However, he has been criticized from many quarters for his biased views. In his book on Galileo, Galilei, Divin Uomo: as many book reviewers have pointed out, this is a book with an ideological agenda, in which objectivity is sacrificed to the demonstration of the thesis that Galileo was a deeply committed Catholic more than a scientist and was therefore willing to renounce his scientific convinctions for his faith.[citation needed]
Elio Fabri, professor of Physics at Pisa, Enrico Bellone, professor of the history of science at the University of Milan and Piergiorgio Odifreddi, mathematician at Cornell University and at the University of Turin, have all criticized his essays both with regard to form and with regard to contents (often pointing out errors in the scientific part itself). Odifreddi has even been sued by Zichichi for defamation for having pointed out the numerous contradictions in his writings in an article entitled “Zichicche” (a portmanteau word from “Zichichi” and the Italian “chicche”, meaning “interesting bits”), which later became a book consisting of a collection of writings about Zichichi by various people. There is a preface written by Giulio Andreotti.
Nobel Prize laureate Hans Bethe has been quoted saying about Zichichi “eccellent organizer, mediocre physicist”.[3]
[edit]
Born 1929 and he was a physicist not a climate scientist
also a bit of a catholic nut case
eminent scientist
not in todays world maybe 40 odd years ago
Andy you are trolling bullshit
again
I would much rather admit the selfish reasons why I do not support trying to do any thing about it than perpetuate a life of cognitive dissonance as you cling to false ideas about the world around you
January 28th, 2012 at 10:37 pm
reid
He was an interesting coot. So far I have only read the article in Wikipaedia but even from that it is obvious that he was a genius.
Unfortunately not so I. The principle of the brushless motor I can just about get my head around… the energy field I find harder but I guess that the lightening analogy sort of explains it.
What I don’t find clear is whether he actually found a source of energy or merely worked on an alternative distribution system.
Can you enlarge?
January 28th, 2012 at 10:43 pm
Can you enlarge?
Zero point energy. Tom Beardon.
Google those.
January 28th, 2012 at 10:43 pm
Other Andy (he should change his handle to the Mad Hatter)
I did. They all do. If you are right, prove us wrong by naming a major scientific body that does not accept the chances of AGW theory being wrong is insensibly close to zero. I like to look at all sides, so I tried. But I can’t. And 194 governments do too. That’s why they all of to the useless conferences.
Like others on here, e.g. V2, you just make things up.
The stuff most made up is of the sacrifices we supposedly have to make to mitigate global warming. There are no sacrifices. There are simply costs and benefits, and the benefits of moving out of fossil fuels, over a time span of decades, is immense. Cleaner, quieter, healthier, and better, much, much better, for our children and grandchildren.
Some companies will gain extraordinary riches, others will shrivel and die. It’s called creative capitalism.
What’s the fucking problem?
January 28th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
@Griff
I would much rather admit the selfish reasons why I do not support trying to do any thing about it than perpetuate a life of cognitive dissonance as you cling to false ideas about the world around you.
I don’t have any skin in the game.
You are still playing the man.
As for cognitive dissonance….
The data is there.
How do you account for the lack of warming at the moment?
Like Kevin Trenberth from the IPCC said, it must be a travesty that you can’t.
So being a catholic is also an important factor in determining the validity of data.
You can’t be:
1. White
2. Old
3. Male
4. Catholic
In any combination?
And only valid for those who oppose the idea of AGW?
@Luc
I just keep on collecting the articles.
It is (still) legal to write things YOU don’t agree with.
And while some groups are trying to make it a criminal offence, to disagree with AGW is also (still) legal.
Hamas isn’t in charge here yet.
I don’t care if that makes me a “mad hatter” in your eyes.
January 29th, 2012 at 1:59 am
Sorry if you don’t understand the bullshit you spout.
83 year old ex physicists that rites catholic propaganda in his spare time.
Does not make a valid argument as a climate scientist.
All major scientific bodies .
Is not countered with random bullshit from nut cases.
Or lists of medical doctors vets and engineers
Grow up and understand the dribble you spout has nothing to do with science
and everything to do with spin from the oil lobby.
If you have no skin in this that just makes you a useful idiot.
Who was your last hero
did you nutters not bring out “lord” mokington
hope you got your frills parading around that old crook as legit
I have chased your links time and again and found half truths, out rite lies, dodgey nameless websites, lawyers, lobbyists and Cristian funder mentalists
and many references to guys like lutze who frankly stink of oil
your arguments have all been destroyed by better men than me
you lies and spin are boring
in short
get a life noddy
January 29th, 2012 at 9:59 am
More pandering to the racists: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8410345/far-north-name-changes-under-treaty-deal
January 29th, 2012 at 11:16 am
Way to go, Sarko. Higher taxes coming to France: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.2df6e7c373564e8707ae008497defb77.391&show_article=1
January 29th, 2012 at 11:31 am
William Rodrigues is a hero. He saved hundreds of people on 911 and was celebrated as a hero and even invited to the White House. All that changed when it became evident that what he had to say did not support the official CT. Here is his story
January 29th, 2012 at 11:36 am
Griff – I think we can safely assume you believe the world is heading for catastrophe if GHG emissions are not drastically cut immediately.
So what are you doing about it? How are you trying to save the world?
January 29th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
Have you ever seen anyone fight so hard to avoid clearing their name?
Michael Mann is desparate to stop more emails being released, under freedom on information legislation, whilst at the same time claiming that the original shocking Climategate revelations were simply taken out of context.
Remember, this is the guy whose notorious Hockeystick chart – the very foundation of global warming alarmism – was so comprehensively discredited, but only after he had been as obstructive as he possibly could for as long as he possibly could in allowing others to view his shoddy, cooked data and his incompetent home-made computer code.
How many times did the IPCC publish that fabrication (and later quietly drop it, without any acknowledgment that this main plank of evidence was actually complete fiction)?
“As important as it is to protect Mr. Mann’s feelings from being hurt, trillions of dollars are at stake with climate-policy decisions being made based on his work. From cap-and-trade to the Kyoto treaty, it’s not enough to make a choice based solely on a trust that this secretive cabal of climate scientists is telling the truth. The taxpayers paid Mr. Mann; they deserve to know exactly what they were getting for their money.
So far, the Climategate disclosures have unmasked shoddy methods in service of a leftist public-policy agenda. Compelling release of all communications – dirty laundry and all – is the only way to provide the full context. Let an informed public decide on its own whether they’ve been hoodwinked by charlatans, or that the sky really is falling.”
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/27/global-warmings-dirty-laundry/
January 29th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
I think we can safely assume you believe the world is heading for catastrophe if GHG emissions are not drastically cut immediately
Can we? Why can we safely assume anything of the sort? What about the CERN experiments that indicate the big yellow ball of fire in the sky actually plays much more of a role than GHG’s do? Or don’t they matter?
I’ve got no problem with proceeding apace with alternative energy sources not because it’s at all urgent for the sake of the planet but because it simply makes sense to commercialise hydrogen since it is as abundant as the oceans and would change the geopolitical driver of oil which causes so much evil in the world. It won’t happen of course it will pretend to happen but those who control the capital for research funding aren’t about to let universities discover anything which takes away their ability to charge whatever the hell they like for the current energy source which the world’s infrastructure is built around. So it won’t be commercialised until they’ve extracted the very last drop of money they possibly can from that and then somehow miraculously someone will discover a commercially and thermodynamically viable way to separate the H’s from the O and then the sheeple will clap and cheer and probably build statues to the heroes and probably several to the generous venture capitalists who made the whole thing possible.
This is how it will happen. Of course were the sheeple more educated they would have been demanding such be funded since the fifties and wouldn’t be taking no for an answer from any politician who tried supporting those nice oil men who were paying them so very much to get themselves re-elected and by now we’d have it all up and running but that’s not how the world works, is it. What is a shame is that even those who claim they do want alternative energy to happen immediately fail to educate themselves and instead bleat and munt and point to nothing but the idiotic and pathetic solar and wind technologies that is the bread and circus distraction equivalent specifically designed for those in the world who’ve fallen hook line and sinker for the AGW distraction meme.
You have to love Tavistock. They think of everything, don’t they. A meme for everyone. I wonder what emblems they use on their charts where they lay out all the bread and circus memes for the all the various social segments. I bet its sheep. Probably particularly dumb sheep breeds as well. After all, accuracy is important, isn’t it.
January 29th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
@ right now
If you Enter an argument/discussion late in the game it is considered polite to read previous posts on the topic
1 We are all right jack in fact food will become more valuable great for our primary industries
2 If new Zealand stopped burning carbon tomorrow it would make little difference to the INCREASE in carbon admissions for the year
3Till the USA Canada Australia and the rest of the world do why cripple our selfs for no reason
On the personal level I live on solar and wind power and have done for about six years
Doing so is an inexpensive lifestyle choice and a interesting hobby and has nothing to do with climate change if I could plug in I would
I have not yet found a power lead that can run for 500 meters under water and spin around with the tide and wind and increase to whot ever distance I am away from my mooring at any given time I will stick to wind and solar for the foreseeable future
I also own some pretty dirty toys 2.5L twostroke outboard is not green nor is a Detroit diesel two stroke I drive a older v6 car not green either
In short I am a selfish arsehole
that still does not change the science being accurate
climate is changing the world is heating and we are responsible
January 29th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
A good article here on Newt’s loony proposal for a moonbase:
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2012/01/newt_gingrich_s_moon_colony_and_mars_plan_.html
January 29th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
Griff, every time I’ve seen you comment on the climate change topic what I understand you’re saying is that people are fools if they don’t believe the consensus (which I condensed above into “the world is heading for catastrophe if GHG emissions are not drastically cut immediately” but am happy for you to provide a better summary) – without doubt. I added ‘without doubt’ as my impression from reading your comments is that you consider it stupid to question any aspect of the IPCC reports.
If I have misunderstood your position then I’m happy for you to correct me. Perhaps you do in fact harbour a little skepticism – perhaps about some of the measures being taken to address the problem, perhaps about some of the science itself. I have only ever seen you say ‘believe the consensus’ (and discrediting skeptical scientists based on their affiliations and funding rather than what they said) so I don’t know how much you actually research yourself.
“climate is changing” – no argument
“world is heating” – is it headed for catastrophic heating? What’s the problem if the heating is actually beneficial?
“and we are responsible” – human activity contribute GHGs to the atmosphere. The degree to which those GHGs have an effect is IMO not yet fully understood (particularly the feedbacks). My understanding is that even the IPCC considers a doubling of CO2 would produce about 1.2degC of warming. I can’t recall exactly the error margins but I believe they’re quite large. As more data is collected I’d expect a more accurate assessment to be able to be made.
January 29th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
reid:
“In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep.” – Einstein
January 29th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
(which I condensed above into “the world is heading for catastrophe if GHG emissions are not drastically cut immediately” but am happy for you to provide a better summary
Have I called the sky is falling
no
you are making up a level of alarm that i do not feel is warranted by my past statements
As I have stated all major scientific bodies believe that the science behind global warming is sound
you may chose to believe other wise
however that belief is not based on science as known by the scientific world
wat
David Schnare, a scientist and lawyer who runs ATI’s Environmental Law Center, is the source of your link
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Tradition_Institute
The ATI website’s About page says that “ATI accepts no government grants, and our financial backing has to date primarily derived from a broad and growing base of grassroots contributors.”[11]. In 2010, $140k of its $186k of funding reportedly came from Doug Lair (whose family sold Lair Petroleum to William Koch in 1989)[2] and the Lair Family Foundation. (The remainder was $1k from memberships, $40k from the American Tradition Partnership, and $5k from Atlas Economic Research Foundation). [6]
lawyers and lobbyists again
January 29th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Griff, you now seem to be saying the science behind global warming is sound but the conclusion is wrong. The IPCC has called the sky is falling.
January 29th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
See the Wall Street Journal published this letter from 16 scientists telling the politicians to relax re: AGW – it’s not important, they say. The meme’s falling apart. Even Rupert’s allowing dissent. Perhaps they’ve realised that they over-estimated the stupidity of the global population and even though they tried really hard, at the end of the day the whole AGW meme was just too fantastic to keep running.
Some pigs are just so ugly no amount of lipstick will work even despite all these decades of gradually dumbing down the whole education system. Even then it’s still so ugly that AGW won’t fly, except in the minds of the exceedingly idiotic. And they’re rapidly dwindling after what seemed like a promising start.
No doubt to save face they’ll try to keep the UN-sponsored ETS memes running but sadly they’ll probably find the only countries dumb enough to actually implement them are particularly slow ones like NZ.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204301404577171531838421366.html
January 29th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Last August the MetService staff were so excited about predicting a snow fall a few days in advance that they jumped for joy. Their spokesman is quoted as saying “when you talk about the future, nobody really knows whats going to happen”. I assume these people are climate scientists.
Then there is NIWA who predicted a hot, dry summer. If they can’t tell us accurately what the climate change is going to be in a few months (or even a few days) why should we believe the AGW scam that is based on computer models using data that has been cherrypicked and “adjusted” ?
What really pisses me off is that the managers of my forestry investment still haven’t sold the carbon credits available and the market is collapsing as more and more people wake up to this massive con.
January 29th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
1 We are all right jack in fact food will become more valuable great for our primary industries
2 If new Zealand stopped burning carbon tomorrow it would make little difference to the INCREASE in carbon admissions for the year
3Till the USA Canada Australia and the rest of the world do why cripple our selfs for no reason
and earlier
Scott we have a mild maritime climate
A mountainous land mass
and are surrounded by ocean
NZ is lucky
not so continental climates More extremes possible due to climate change
Would not invest into Bangladesh
except dike Building
fuck can you read
Yes reid we have all seen those names before
all major scientific bodies
not sixteen nut cases, lobbyists,Cristian undies and tired old oil industry execs.
January 29th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
The Bill Cosby “I’m 76 and Tired” email, fake.
http://billcosby.com/site/2011/09/if-you-got-the-bogus-email-its-time-to-hit-delete.html
January 29th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
The rebuttal Griff.
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/two_incontrovertible_things_an.php?utm_source=combinedfeed&utm_medium=rss
January 29th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Where are all the alarmists today? They were here before but they seem to have fled the scene.
Can’t they even defend their meme as its ripped to shreds before their eyes? Have they no response?
What about this question: that letter I posted above makes the observation that when the 10 year climate model predictions petered out as year after year yielded actual data which went completely against their predictions, the meme changed from excessive warming (as the model predicted) to claiming extreme weather events were arising due to AGW. The meme changed, didn’t it, a few years, about five years, ago. That’s what happened, didn’t it.
Now as everyone knows, this is precisely what you do in propaganda. You run a meme, the warming planet decade and monitor public acceptance and when you see its not working, you change the meme. This is how they run elections on a micro-scale and also how they run global propaganda campaigns like AGW, the war on drugs and the war on terror, just on a different timescale.
As I’ve often said the tell AGW is bollocks for me is not the science for I’m not equipped enough to analyse it and its not my interest to equip myself so to me the tell is that it looks, walks and talks like a well thought out in motion perception management a.k.a. propaganda campaign and its meme shifts like the one I just mentioned that give it away because science, real science, simply does not deal in meme shifts.
I rarely discuss AGW because it’s frightfully boring, isn’t it, to see the same old people making the same old points day after day time and again. I don’t know why anyone bothers. Does anyone on either side seriously think anyone on the other side is really going to change their views one iota as a result of anything you say? Does anyone seriously think that? I bloody hope not.
But it is a fascinating phenomena in action with all sorts of facets and potentials which continue to unfold. To me the biggest interest is in watching and observing how something so clearly architected not discovered, could be foisted upon the entire world for decades past and decades to come, in plain and clear and present sight and the whole world, still has no idea who or what is really behind it nor does it apparently, occur to anyone in the whole world barring a few hundred thou perhaps – even to ask themselves that question. It’s like a looming and growing massive tsunamai a million feet high controlled and created and directed by who knows who but someone is sure as hell doing it, and the whole world still has no idea it even exists like that. It’s great. Like a massive disaster movie for years to come.
January 29th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Yes reid we have all seen those names before…all major scientific bodies…not sixteen nut cases, lobbyists,Cristian undies and tired old oil industry execs.
No clearly not Griff, quite distinguished list isn’t it. Are you sure you still want to believe in AGW? I would have thought it’s becoming embarrassing to admit it. Or have I read you wrong and you’re really not insane after all?
January 29th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Griff,
Your “lawyers and lobbyists” comment might make some sense if this organisation was the one attempting to conceal its data and at the same time advocating eye-wateringly expensive legislation based on said data.
Why have global warming alarmists always fought so hard to avoid the supposed science becoming publicly available? Surely if the science were sound they would be falling over themselves to show people outside of their taxpayer-funded coterie?
January 29th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Do I really have to why dont you google them your self
I have told you who they are scott posted a few before
lobbyists, old oil company reps, sundry undies and a few nut cases
now i am getting tired of your links
boring
still
ALL MAJOR SCIENTIFIC BODIES BELIEVE THAT THE THEORY OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS VALID
and you believe you know more about science, you all must be real smart cookies
January 29th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
This is quite interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kisNNL5BtR8&feature=youtu.be
January 29th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
“ALL MAJOR SCIENTIFIC BODIES BELIEVE THAT THE THEORY OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS VALID”
Of course climate change is real. That’s the whole point sceptics have been making for years.
But if you actually mean anthropogenic global warming, that is another thing altogether.
What exactly does that mean to say that a scientific body “believes” something?
Did they perform their own thorough investigation of the evidence? If so, where are these documented?
Or did they canvas their members and, on a simple majority, announce that the body as a whole “believed” something? (I don’t believe any reputable scientific group would ever do something so unscientific.)
Or is it just the case that a motivated minority in control of each group’s committees unilaterally made these announcements?
January 29th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
I’m still not sure on your position Griff.
You say you haven’t called that the sky is falling – my inference is that you don’t think there’s going to be catastrophic consequences from climate change.
But then you seem to be saying how stupid these ’16 concerned scientists’ are for saying “No Need to Panic About Global Warming”.
January 29th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Good article on China:
With China you currently also have a collapsing residential property market with many property developers have sell at a loss if they can even sell, in many cities, plus you have circa 2 trillion USD-value debts from her internal banks to her provincial govts for all the massive infrastructure projects.
A bit on how business really happens:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-billionaire-the-banker–and-a-bit-of-birchthrashing-6295370.html
If you want a really good read, in Wgtn and I’m sure Akld libraries there’s a book about the oligarchs in London, it’s not just lifestyle luckily but covers quite a bit about their background and business and politics. Just look up the catalogue with oligarch london keywords and you’ll get it.
Mysterious undersea objects:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/video-divers-large-unexplained-object-bottom-baltic-sea-161749619.html
January 29th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
I’m still not sure on your position Griff.
Griff’s clearly an alarmist RN. No doubt about it.
His issue seems to be he doesn’t understand how it works when real science is discovered, such as what happened with Relativity and the way that developed and became gradually a part of the world.
That, which was real, happened very slowly and in the lab and the crucial thing is, the scientists, all of them, every single one around the world, all did the same thing which was they became immediately extremely skeptical which is what their training tells them to do. Scientists when faced with a new theory are trained to disprove it, not to prove it.
Griff’s problem RN is that he obviously doesn’t know this so he has no reference point to understand what really happens when a real scientific theory like relativity is promulgated. It took twenty years before it even got out of the lab into the first commercial uses and then it was very gradual. But that hasn’t happened with AGW, has it.
Griff also RN clearly doesn’t understand the power of waving dollars to influence the research direction to people who dedicate their lives to doing something, anything, in their chosen field. Not to corrupt the experiments scientists would not tolerate that. But to influence what factors are researched and what factors aren’t, most scientists are comfortable with that when you do it widely enough and with AGW research this is the practice world-wide. Certain factors such as the sun’s influence are simply not funded proportionately to others such as the influence of GHG’s in particular CO2 and this is how its done. And Griff doesn’t understand this either, RN, apparently.
So I’m not really sure I myself shall continue discussion with Griff re: AGW. I just hope for his own sake that he’s dedicating himself to becoming a climatologist so he can understand if the science really is bullshit or not and I wish him well. I mean if he doesn’t do that then he’s really selling himself short isn’t he, given he’s relying on the “science.” Shame he doesn’t understand its the AGW politics that matter, and only those, since it’s only in the politics that any rubber at all ever hits the road. The science is quite irrelevant. Let’s hope Griff is bright enough to read between the lines of everything that’s been said by people like you and I on this issue RN. I doubt he is, but let’s hope so anyway.
January 29th, 2012 at 4:47 pm
“Met Office releases new figures which show no warming in 15 years”
“The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century.
Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming–Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html
January 29th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
Labour lies refuted by the Police: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbnat/1569920341-Labour-police-claims-refuted
January 29th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Times are tough, aren’t they? http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6328649/Taxes-pay-ministry-staffs-Koru-Club-fees
January 29th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
Grumpy Hickey on Smile-and-wave’s addiction: borrowing money
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10781864
January 29th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
What do people think about this coverage of Whittall’s new business? Personally I think it’s disgraceful. The report hasn’t yet been issued yet apparently the MSM sees fit to destroy any possibility of the man getting any income whatsoever by it’s emotive, angled coverage of this issue today, Sunday, obviously timed and calculated.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10781985
You want an example of outrageous abuse of media power, this is it.
Look, whether or not Whittall is found guilty of whatever is way in the future and meanwhile he is entitled to proceed unmolested with his life under the extreme circumstances he has been under. Who of us would have wanted to have been him? None, right?
So the MSM sees nothing wrong at all with doing this, when just 12 months ago his conduct in the public was such as to be considered venerable.
The media, does not manage opinion, we do. That’s the message these arseholes should be sent via letters to editors, over this, IMO.
But again, the media manage the letters, don’t they.
January 29th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
The best gamekeepers are usually ex poachers.
January 29th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
Grumpy Hickey on Smile-and-wave’s addiction: borrowing money
I wonder how much interest the international banks will earn as a result of all the myriad transactions which have and will occur as the ChCh rebuild proceeds. You’d have to think the NZ taxpayer is being hit with tens of billions in interest over say the next twenty years wouldn’t you and all simply to replace what was already there with a few minor improvements but not the hundred or so billion total cost which is what it may well be all said and done twenty years from now…
HAARP
January 29th, 2012 at 10:52 pm
Fire Kohihia Kotel
January 29th, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Fire Kokilia Patel as well.
January 29th, 2012 at 11:05 pm
will kohikia patel wake up 2 morra ?
January 29th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
Who cares ?
January 29th, 2012 at 11:18 pm
who ?