128 Responses to “General Debate 19 February 2012”
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February 19th, 2012 at 8:03 am
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6443329/Fracking-the-new-nuke-free
and completely misses the irony in that nuke-free is also based on bad understanding of the science. Another scientifically illiterate media beat up.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:16 am
And there’s Russel Norman jumping on the bandwagon, touring the country to put a lid on economic growth before the mere idea of it gains any popularity
February 19th, 2012 at 8:17 am
Good morning all.
Trivia time: Did you know that “Ure” in Te Reo Maori means “Penis”
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/culture/tereo-100words
I used this as influence in my first attempt at Political Satire
http://timgoz.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/new-zealands-first-dead-mp-elected.html
Please critique
February 19th, 2012 at 8:29 am
TimG_Oz,
So just what are you trying to say about Phil@whoar … / eh?
I think the future Greens co-co-co-komo leader also needs to answer why people with fetishes are not represented on their list.
People with odd predilections are people too. I mean, some might say that if it weren’t for people with odd predilections the Greens would have little representation in the House at all.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:35 am
Matt McCarten continues to be the master of the ‘own goal’ with his HOS column complaining about politician’s inability to work with numbers.
He is the same person who opted out of paying the IRD the $150,000+ of PAYE tax deductions he collected on behalf of UNITE employees. So working with figures is not exactly Matt’s strong point either….
Hypocrite, much?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10786425
February 19th, 2012 at 8:39 am
Broadcaster Paul Holmes’ role as presenter of TVNZ’s Q&A Sunday morning current affairs show is being questioned after a “racially offensive” column he wrote about Waitangi Day.
AUT indigenous studies adjunct professor Dr Rawiri Taonui has joined Mana Party leader Hone Harawira and broadcaster Willie Jackson in questioning Holmes’ suitability for the role.
“It’s a sad day when a great writer repeats the prejudices of the past, but Holmes’ offer on Waitangi Day is a fall from grace,” Taonui said.
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6443334/Anger-at-Holmes-Waitangi-remarks
Fortunately some intelligence does seem to exist [well, for now, until the clamour becomes greater?] –
TVNZ current affairs head John Gillespie told the Herald last week an opinion piece would not undermine Holmes’ position as Q&A presenter.
Holmes, Taonui, Harawira and Jackson are all highly opinionated and the argument of the latter three would suggest none of them should have the positions they hold.
But as Holmes comments
I wouldn’t take my three great uncles who died at Gallipoli and in France – Reuben, Mathew and Leonard – to Waitangi Day and expect them to believe this was our national day. I wouldn’t take my father, veteran of El Alamein and Cassino, there. Nor would I take my Uncle Ken who died in a Wellington bomber, then try and tell him Waitangi Day was anything but filth.
– http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10784735
What would Jackson’s answer be to that – without too much revisionist New Zealand history
Un homme qui ne pense pas que pour lui-même ne pense pas du tout.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:41 am
So, you could attack McCarten or address his points:
1. English makes up numbers that “sound good”
2. Borrows has no clue about budgeting
3. Mallard is a hypocrite.
BTW, what’s the update on the PAYE situation?
February 19th, 2012 at 8:48 am
Yvette
Like it or not, Waitangi Day is our national day, as it commemorates the founding of our nation. No other event in NZ history matches it for significance. It is that significance that makes it a magnet for ongoing discontent with the state of the nation.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:00 am
TimG_Oz – as you would equate ‘ure’ with ‘penis’, here are a couple of oar strokes from Phil –
incontrivable proof that our political leaders are as dumb as a sack of doorknobs…and are just selling us down the river..unthinking…
Posted on 1/2/2012
putting the pros and cons of drilling for oil to one side..
..and just focusing on the supposed benefits for new zealand/the mug-punters..
..can you just consider these stark facts..and weep..?
..as i reported yesterday…
….the progressive govt in ecuador..bemoaning the low oil royalties they were getting for their natural resources..
..have negotiated a new deal…
..where the oil companies now will pay them a royalty of 87%..
..that figure they bemoaned…?…13%…
…the figure ‘negotiated’ by the useless bastards who are our political ‘leaders’..?
..for the extraction of our natural resource/oil..?
..5%…
..whoar..!
..eh..?
..come on down gerry brownlee/john key…!
update:..but wait..!..there’s more…!..(as i/whoar reported back in 8/11..)
“..In 2010 New Zealand’s crude oil production was worth a staggering US$2,521,625,288 - - or (at current exchange rates) $2.97 billion New Zealand Dollars.
The governments tax take on that is $148 m -
- or roughly the same amount given away to oil companies as sweeteners like seismic mapping research…”
and
why either henare or dunne should bring down this govt..and force an early election…(hint:..it is in their own best-interests…)
Posted on 18/2/2012
suggestions to bring down this govt:..an ongoing series…
(this is a follow-up to the previous suggestion of trying to persuade tau henare to become a hero to maoridom/many..forever..
..if he were to cross the floor on the principle of asset-sales…
..and force an early election..)
this suggestion is that labour/whoever approach dunne..and promise him that if he walks away from national and forces an early election..
..that no matter what the numbers post that election..
..that a progressive grouping/coalition would include him in that govt..
..plus..like henare..
..he could/would become a hero to many..
..and of course the other big allure..
..for both henare and dunne..
..is that they would be written up large in the history books…
..as the one who ‘saved’ our energy assets…
..that is some powerful mojo/mana…
..do the right thing..and become a hero..
..what’s not to love about that..?
…/eh?
February 19th, 2012 at 9:01 am
@ Yvette – and it’s interesting that Hone Harawira has joined the chorus of those criticising Holmes. After all, it wasn’t that long ago that Hone himself was the subject of over 750 complaints to the Race Relations Commissioner:
http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/we-cant-help-but-wonder_19.html
Pot; meet kettle…
February 19th, 2012 at 9:09 am
mikemild
I didn’t actually say what I thought myself of Waitangi Day, but I do hope celebrations of this ambiguous badly written real estate agreement will, through boring conflict like that between Holmes and his critics, dwindle as people further sicken of its stupidity and finally replace it with something that is more worthy, similar to AUSTRALIA DAY or USs THANKSGIVING DAY.
I guess I will never get a job as a current affairs presenter now either.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:17 am
@ Yvette from 9:00am
Pure Gold. I doubt any satirist could emulate such bizarre commentary
February 19th, 2012 at 9:22 am
I’ve always regarded Paul Holmes as a moron who, at best, suffers from fractured thinking. I watched his appalling show on TV only once and that was the day it started. But he’s not the only one who’s clueless about the meaning of the day:
The state of the nation? I thought it was also discontent with an unchangeable past, as shown here, with the standard left-wing take on the event, as expressed by one “intellectual”:
mikenmild garnished that quote with this comment: Scott Hamilton, I enjoyed your summary of Waitangi Day:
It’s good to see some on the left still relishing such “enjoyment” of the day. I’m amused at seeing their mystification that vast numbers of New Zealanders have turned away from such joy and ignored the whole thing. Truly a mystery: perhaps more guilt and shame will get them to return to these “celebrations”?
February 19th, 2012 at 9:43 am
tom
I guess the question is what version of the past should be remembered, commemorated or even celebrated. While you may think that the past is unchaning, it is in fact a narrative constantly undergoing revision.
I think Waitangi Day is our founding day, but it doesn’t mean it should necessarily be a day on which we celebrate our great country. It will always be a focus for those who hold other views.
Yvette
I wonder how Thanksgiving is celebrated by the descendants of the Wampanoag. Do aboriginal tribes in Australia have much to celebrate on Australia Day?
February 19th, 2012 at 9:54 am
Constantly? The quote you so lovingly cut and pasted has been the standard “narrative” about the day for most of my life in this country. Moreover, I see no evidence that it will ever be revised in any way, which is not surprising since the intention is to implant endless amounts of shame and guilt in order to maintain modern political objectives.
I’m pretty much done with explaining irony to you and other left-wingers, so will simply leave you to ponder the question of how you will be able to enlist the majority of the population in celebrating a day of shame?
February 19th, 2012 at 10:11 am
TimG_Oz, good post but you left out a narcoleptic Tourette’s sufferer.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:12 am
If we are to believe this: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/capital-life/6443666/Jamie-Oliver-to-open-restaurant-in-Wellington
February 19th, 2012 at 10:15 am
The tobacco-nazis widen their scope: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10786514
February 19th, 2012 at 10:19 am
tom
All you are really saying is that you don’t agree with modern interpretations of our past, without saying why but implying that it is some left-wing capture of history. I don’t consider Waitangi Day to be a day of shame, although some do and perhaps with a degree of justification, because on balance we have a lot to celebrate about our country. OTOH, I’m not going to buy into some candy-floss celebration that ignores reality to make ourselves feel good.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:32 am
Kevin Rudd being a not very happy little vegemite:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/kevin-rudds-not-a-happy-little-vegemite/story-fn7x8me2-1226274678702
“The video was posted anonymously on YouTube after Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s supporters declared war on Mr Rudd’s character”
February 19th, 2012 at 10:40 am
tom hunter says:- “how you will be able to enlist the majority of the population in celebrating a day of shame”
Easy. When Ellizabeth II dies, be become a republic. We ratify this constitutional amendment on Waitangi day, renaming it New Zealand’s day thus reclaiming it as a day of celebration, not of recrimination.
February 19th, 2012 at 10:43 am
So whats the reason for selling state owned assets again?
February 19th, 2012 at 10:45 am
Now here is another one for bereal to rave at me about. Police corruption possible. Never said he, they are always lilly white. Duur
Twist in Teresa Cormack murder case
By David Fisher
5:30 AM Sunday Feb 19, 2012
Wayne Montaperto was a suspect in the murder of Teresa Cormack in 1987, but Jules Mikus (pictured) was convicted in 2002 of killing her. Photo / mark Mitchell
Expand
Wayne Montaperto was a suspect in the murder of Teresa Cormack in 1987, but Jules Mikus (pictured) was convicted in 2002 of killing her. Photo / mark Mitchell
The chief suspect in the murder of Teresa Cormack was convicted of kidnapping children after police passed information to the jury, it is alleged.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10786528
February 19th, 2012 at 10:45 am
Rightnow
Oh KRudd!!
February 19th, 2012 at 10:49 am
We become a republic? Great.
How long before we become a Fiji, given the the rabble at Waitangi?
February 19th, 2012 at 11:14 am
The Guardian reminds us that eugenics was a left-wing movement:
“Thus George Bernard Shaw could insist that “the only fundamental and possible socialism is the socialisation of the selective breeding of man”, even suggesting, in a phrase that chills the blood, that defectives be dealt with by means of a “lethal chamber”.
Such thinking was not alien to the great Liberal titan and mastermind of the welfare state, William Beveridge, who argued that those with “general defects” should be denied not only the vote, but “civil freedom and fatherhood”.
Harold Laski, stellar LSE professor, co-founder of the Left Book Club and one-time chairman of the Labour party, cautioned that: “The time is surely coming … when society will look upon the production of a weakling as a crime against itself.” Meanwhile, JBS Haldane, admired scientist and socialist, warned that: “Civilisation stands in real danger from over-production of ‘undermen’.” That’s Untermenschen in German.
…the eugenics movement’s definition of “unfit” was not limited to the physically or mentally impaired. It held, he writes, “that most of the behavioural traits that led to poverty were inherited. In short, that the poor were genetically inferior to the educated middle class.” It was not poverty that had to be reduced or even eliminated: it was the poor.
What was missing was any value placed on individual freedom”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/17/eugenics-skeleton-rattles-loudest-closet-left
February 19th, 2012 at 11:32 am
Just further to the bail thread of yesterday.
I believe its time for bonded bail in New Zealand. Presently when bailed on street offences at the police station you sign a bail bond saying that you’ll pay $500 if you don’t front. That has never been enforced.
We need a situation where you actually have to front up with the cash or have a bail bondman front it for you.
The positives are: less non- appearances, save the Courts huge amounts of time.
less re-offending because if you do you are going to loose your car you have posted as security.
less re-offending because if you screw over the bail bondman you’ll get a hiding and blow the chance of bail being posted again.
February 19th, 2012 at 11:41 am
renaming it New Zealand’s day thus reclaiming it as a day of celebration, not of recrimination.
Do you really think the publicity opportunists would all any ‘reclaiming’ (actually protest has been associated with Waitangi since the beginning).
Protests this year were about asset sales and drilling (not issues in 1840). What will be the protests of the month that happen to coincide with the next Waitangi day?
February 19th, 2012 at 11:45 am
less re-offending because if you screw over the bail bondman you’ll get a ” hiding” and blow the chance of bail being posted again.
In some ways i am glad you are not a cop still.l you seem to have a rather poor attitude to the rights of a suspect
may haps you should change your name to dirty harry
February 19th, 2012 at 11:53 am
Pick yer leftists wat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_International_Eugenics_Conference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_Education_Society#Prominent_members
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Eugenics_Society#Prominent_founders
February 19th, 2012 at 11:58 am
minto57 – So whats the reason for selling state owned assets again?
that IS the reason – once you have sold them you can’t sell them again
February 19th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Pete George says:- “What will be the protests of the month that happen to coincide with the next Waitangi day?”
Pete, it’s all about selling an idea to the media. All you have to do is persuade them to adopt New Zealand’s day as a day of celebration where our uncomfortable past is laid aside for a day whilst we celebrate our being. If the media don’t report the inevitable protests whatever they happen to be about, then no one will see them and they will inevitably peter out – for a day at least.
There appears to be a groundswell of popular resentment towards the annual Waitangi day protest-fest which would be easy to harness given the right idea, and a decent sales pitch. And as you know, effecting change is simply a matter of nudging people in the direction they basically want to go.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
While you may think that the past is unchaning, it is in fact a narrative constantly undergoing revision.
mm this is the issue. It changes to suit people who ignore the less savoury bits of their own culpability and paints them as total victims helpless in the face of aggression. This is the only narrative they discuss. They never discuss how NZ was bought into first the 18th, then 19th, 20th and 21st century by connections to Europe bought about by colonialism. They never discuss the Westminster justice system we setup here, the education system, the roads, bridges, railway, electricity, telecommunications and all of the things which would never have happened as quickly as they did without us. They also never discuss that everyone lives within the mores of their own generation and the way the redcoats used to act can’t reasonably be ethically adjudged through the mores of our generation since they are totally different but nevertheless, these days, they do that, all the time. Even people like Turei who should know better, do that.
So actually, given that actually, we’d have to be a bit slow as a species not to have learned every possible thing we could from picking over the remains of the distant past, especially when it happened a 150 years ago. I mean what more about it do we need to know that we don’t already.
I mean take the Victorian Age for example and everything that happened there. We don’t constantly obsess over every little thing about that age, today, do we. So why does NZ feel it needs to indulge a group of its citizens who insist on doing nothing but, all the time? There’s a treaty process FFS. By all means, engage in it. But just shut up about your naval gazing reinterpretation which conveniently suits yourselves in every way or at least, keep it inside the confines of the treaty courts, so those poor bastards are the only ones who have to listen to the propaganda.
The fact is shit happened, we know it did, that’s why we’ve got the treaty process and hardly anyone but a small tiny handful of ChCh-based rednecks object to it, so use it, that’s our penance to you for what happened. But anyone who still blames what happened 100 years ago for the fact their teeth are rotten, they have diabetes and heart problems and they live in a hovel, is abrogating responsibility for their own lives, given the resources we have always had in this day and age, which any sensible person can avail themselves of. People who don’t avail themselves of it, even if, when children, they were prevented but when they’re adults they still don’t avail themselves of these resources, have to take responsibility for that. It’s not society’s fault. It’s a shame, and it’s sad because it didn’t have to happen. But it’s not society’s fault.
OTOH, I’m not going to buy into some candy-floss celebration that ignores reality to make ourselves feel good.
Did you know mm the only white people who feel guilty about what happened to the Maori are lefties? You’re the only ones with sore tummies on this issue. Why the hell do you think you have to feel guilty about something which other people did 150 years ago? Yes, one understands the pathos, der. But crikey, why do you have to feel personally responsible for something you had nothing to do with nor any control over. I mean, crikey.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
reid
Perhaps you skimmed over the bit where I said that I don’t consider Waitaingi Day to be a day of shame. I don’t feel any guilt myself; in fact I’m proud of what my forebears achieved when they got here. Doesn’t make me look at the past through rose-tinted spectacles though.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:24 pm
Doesn’t make me look at the past through rose-tinted spectacles though.
Doesn’t make me do that either, mm. I don’t do rose-tinted, they don’t suit my face.
Tim, nice comment. You make a promising satirist.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
it’s all about selling an idea to the media. All you have to do is persuade them to adopt New Zealand’s day as a day of celebration
The media are not interested in being persuaded. They don’t do celebration unless it involves themselves or celebrities (the like to think that’s just one group).
They prefer conflict, dissent, over action and over reaction.
Media played a big part in creating the cup of tea nonsense, and they blew it out of all proportion to what it was, making something ridiculously trivial into a potential election changer (they kept talking of potential game changers and ended up inventing one for themselves).
February 19th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
You are meant to type this reid:
“Tim, nice comment. You make a promising satirist.
”
Should get it right by 20,000!
February 19th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
With 12,371 you must be the highest ranking KB commenter Pete.
Have you had the nod for the QB honours yet?
February 19th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
If you actually look back at the colonization of New Zealand
It was one of the most benighted take overs of that era
there is plenty to be proud of in the story of New Zealand
We gave Maori a vote almost a century before Australia recognized abos as human rather than fauna
We had an action prime minster that was Maori well before any other country
We started the treaty process and are leading the effort to redress past wrongs
less than 2% of the population voted for the radical element with in Maoridom
2% SHOULD NOT DOMINATE OUR NATIONAL DAY
February 19th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Still can’t see any other day that would be appropriate as a national day though.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
My ESTA has expired, so I went online to get a new one and now the idiots are charging for them, but what really did make me laugh is the name under which this fee is being charged:
How on earth does charging people for a piece of bureaucratic nonsense “promote travel”? Are they really that thick that they think charging us to then promote the place back to us is going to want us to travel there more often?
Remove the fuckwits and associated fuckwittery, otherwise known as the TSA, or Thousands Standing Around, from the airports and at least try to make American airports a more pleasant experience, well, as pleasant as an airport experience can get.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
The squeaking hinge always gets the oil Griff.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
No JB, I don’t think DPF is in to them, me neither.
Republic rules! (hopefully in my lifetime, but I suspect that means I’ll have to outlast E2).
February 19th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Carroll_%28New_Zealand_politician%29
Twice in the Liberal Government, Carroll acted as Prime Minister, and his status was confirmed by the awarding in 1911 of the KCMG, becoming the first Maori to be knighted. Carroll continued to represent the General Electorate seat of Gisborne until 1919, when he was defeated by Douglas Lynsar.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
Dominion Day Milkey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_New_Zealand
February 19th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Still can’t see any other day that would be appropriate as a national day though.
Simple. We create one. First Sunday in September.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
Having looked at the Sunday Star Times today I am considering shooting myself – if I had a gun.
What a sad miserable desolate country we live in – the so called Editorial, Oram and Hubbard have so depressed me that I have grave chances for the future of New Zealand.
My wife tells me off fo reading it (our subscription cancels in 3 weeks) – I actually skim it – it is absolutely terribly sad crap.
No wonder their circulation is dropping – mine will help it further but by only one.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:41 pm
So we pick a random day, devoid of meaning, and ask people to celebrate our country at that time. Sounds pretty lame and boring.
February 19th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
Bloody sad Pete. Anyone who gave his all for a principle and due to the perverse nature of NZ politics had to settle for ignominious defeat as an adjunct to a chap with an outrageous hairstyle deserves a bloody honour I say!
February 19th, 2012 at 12:51 pm
“New Zealand chose not to take part in Australian Federation and assumed complete self-government as the Dominion of New Zealand on 26 September 1907, Dominion Day, by proclamation of King Edward VII.”
A glorious day Milkey. Without such a day we would be but a State of Australia and be doomed to clapping and cheering whenever Bill Lawry or Richie Benaud made a complete arse of themselves.
Needless to say the “Twelfth Man” would also be a national icon!
February 19th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
“So we pick a random day, devoid of meaning, and ask people to celebrate our country at that time. Sounds pretty lame and boring.”
I agree. It wouldn’t work. If people are unwilling to rebrand Waitangi day, then an alternative would be rebrand Queen’s Birthday to New Zealand day when she dies and we become a republic.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:00 pm
So we pick a random day, devoid of meaning, and ask people to celebrate our country at that time.
That’s the whole point. We can all then make what meaning we want to celebrate out Kiwi pride, without being encumbered by things that peoople will never agree on.
I’m sure people can actually think for themselves and don’t need something specifically religious, political or commercial to overshadow it.
A Kiwi DIY day. Make it 8th September if you like, number 8 day. We don’t need to be fenced in like sheep every day.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
Not a fan of King Charles 111 then are we Scotty?
February 19th, 2012 at 1:03 pm
JB – I don’t feel defeated. I always said the real campaign started after the election. Ongoing.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
Hit me up next time for a donation Pete.
I’ve always liked your style!
February 19th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
I suspect that means I’ll have to outlast E2
She’ll step down in a year or two in favour of William and his bride, I’m predicting.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Whats wrong with keeping your sheep under close control by the way?
February 19th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Won’t happen oh 10,026 little master.
Bonnie Prince Charlie the third and his horse is our future!
February 19th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
Johnboy 1.13 pm.
I’ve always like your style.
In view of you comment regarding P.Dunne’s hairstyle, does this mean you approve of Pete’s hairstyle?
February 19th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
Oh contraire. After being told for decades by various shades of left-wing “thinkers”, that Waitangi Day is not worth celebrating because of its shameful beginnings and the betrayal of its agreements by my apparently shitty forebears I have simply taken those people at their word.
Reid, the whole point is that mikenmild does not feel any guilt and shame about the actions of forebears (whether ideological or genealogical). It’s the rest of us who are supposed to feel that.
See!
Although there is one potential problem:
Really? Proud of … dodgy property speculators from some of England’s second-rate public schools on land seized from Maori by Celtic and Yorkshire soldier-settlers ….
In addition to irony there is another term that apparently escapes mikenmild – mutually exclusive.
Although I’m sure it can be evaded by denial of said forebears (perhaps they were the forebears who arrived after all the dirty work had been done? You know the ones – the good forebears), as well as the Euro-cringe stance, cash, and abuse of other Europeans who don’t toe the line. That usually counts as sufficient penance for a left-winger to maintain the moral high-ground.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
I’ve just had my sheep under close control, nice mutton chops.
I don’t see why we should wait for E2, that could take a decade or more, and then there will be argument over what to do form there for another few years at least. And whatever becomes of QB can still be for whatever.
In many ways we need to get back to good old Kiwi resourcefulness, Maori and early immigrants needed plenty of that.
We seem to be getting more and more addicted to prescription, and that’s not just the pop-a-pill pandemic type. Too much grizzling and expecting the Government to prescribe all our solutions.
Surely we can work out how to celebrfate a bit of pride in our country without being told when and how we have to do it.
We will only have less Government and more people power if we find ways of making it happen.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
tom
You are quite confused. I don’t have any personal guilt about our colonial past, nor do I expect anyone else to feel guilty, any more than I would expect a German to feel guilty about the Holocaust or a Japanese to feel shame about wartime atrocities.
That’s quite different from cutting oneself off from the past as the necessary precursor of the present.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Don when you have as little hair as I do even PG’s coiffure looks good!
February 19th, 2012 at 1:48 pm
Glad to see you are OK (relaxed) re Guantanamo Milkey.
All a fuckin beat up really eh?
February 19th, 2012 at 1:48 pm
Only in America: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/16/nj-gov-christie-defends-lowering-flags-houston/
February 19th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
But you would expect them to at least pay up in restitution, perhaps even apologise?
Of course you would.
The real question is whether you would then demand that they “celebrate” both actions on some national holiday.
Every year.
Forever.
February 19th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
MM goodwins
Holocaust
That would be when the population of a people is systematically exterminated would it not MM
Maori just means people
pre contact there were not Maori there were tribes
30,000+ exterminated in tribal warfare whole ” populations of a people”
whose holocaust who did it?
The tribes against the other tribes
Of course MM argues that we should have deigned them access to technology
February 19th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Well tom, the difference there is that I don’t see Waitangi Day as a day of shame, any more than I would expect national holidays in Germany or Japan to focus on the wrongs those nations committed in war.
Griff
Dear or dear – you really get off on the idea of the musket wars don’t you? And your point is…?
February 19th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
Well if we took motor vehicles off them there would be a bloody sight less fatals on the roads Griff.
Similar could be said for smokes, piss, KFC, poker machines, dope, boats, sharp knives, etc, etc. of course!
February 19th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
You Goodwin
I ask was the musket wars a holocaust
That depends if you allocate the word only to jewdom or those that were persecuted by the third Reich
or is it applicable to other atrocity like Rwandans Cambodia etc.
And the extermination in new Zealand circa 1812 in-till 1842. 1860to1880snew Zealand wars were also a continuation of tribal conflict from this time.
If there has been any holocaust in New Zealand it would be this abomination of tribal warfare.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
When you get down to the nitty gritty and are completely honest with yourself, Maoris really are useless for anything other than dancing about with their tongues poking out while rolling their eyes.
Brings in a bit of tourist dollar but not enough to offset the huge cost on the welfare system that the rest of us poor bastards have to pay for through our taxes.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
We could solve the whole problem of Waitangi Day in an instant. Leave the Pakeha & the Maori who have moved on from the 19th Century to do what they do now……spend the summer holiday with family, playing golf or whatever floats their boats.
Our politicians & dignitaries should shun the Waitangi farce which could be renamed “Protest Day”, translated into Te Reo of course. That would leave the MSM & the bleaters from the Tangata Whenua to do what they do best……moan & create strife where none need exist.
Waitangi Day in its present form is divisive. Whatever replaced it would be hijacked by the whingers so simply ignore the occasion.
February 19th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
I guess I was being a little too subtle for you, so let me spell it out. It has been made quite clear for three decades or more, by left-wingers just like you, that that is exactly what we are expected to do on NZ’s national holiday; focus on the wrongs.
Sure, milky, sure. You’re totally different to all the left-wingers I listened to on this subject through the 80′s and again in the double-o’s. So confident of their arguments were they, that emotional manipulation was not needed, just like every other left-wing idea.
Still, I can probably accept that you’re backing off of it now – but only because your comrades have pulled the guilt trip so much that people have simply walked away from you and your event.
What I’m very much enjoying is the resulting scene, where you and Hone are left alone shouting:
Hey!
What happened?
Where is everybody?
Come back here so I can tell you how to throw off your imperialist and colonialist past!
Come baaaaack.
Raaaaaacists!
February 19th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
Two societies. That’s what we need.
One set of rules and laws for the forward looking progressive folks and a different set for the benighted, backward looking others.
I’m sure we could find a template for a society like that somewhere!
February 19th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
Do you wish for the old minto to be resurrected shhhs
February 19th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
“that that is exactly what we are expected to do on NZ’s national holiday; focus on the wrongs.”
Heh, blaming “the lefties” again I see. Turned those happy natives into uppity niggers. Shoulda left ‘em illiterate and ignorant. Much easier to control. Who gives a fuck about human rights, so long as *I’m* free.
February 19th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Secret video of Scotty “I’m free” Chris at his place of employment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8jizCq3Su4
February 19th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
Government helping to fund scientology drug awareness program.
February 19th, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Yesterday’s TV listings showed a movie screening late last night called An American Carol. LIsted as a comedy I’ve never heard of it and since it sounded like some piece of american corn I didn’t bother looking it up online to see if it was worth watching. I should have. I caught parts of it channel surfing.
As its name hints its a retelling of Dicken’s famous story with a modern scrooge being visited by three ghosts who help him see the error of his ways.
The scrooge charcater this time? Its some guy called Michael Malone, a political agitator, involved with groups such as Moooveon.org and People for the anti-american way. He also makes documentaries explaining how the cubans have a better helath system than the americans and he looks a lot like another well known documentary maker…
February 19th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
Any Kiwiblog followers know anything about Shaista Shameem, the Fijian Pakistani-Indian lawyer who featured on Lefty Laidlaw’s Sunday Morning show about mercenaries-security contractors on Radio Labour today?
Shameem on Radio Labour seemed critical of the “northern” (ie Western) nations for not supporting tighter new laws on private security use. Rather weird when on a per capita basis the number of security contractors from Fiji would be ahead of other nationalities.
I read on Wikipedia that Shameem was an Ombudsman of Fiji, but that the international human rights group Human Rights Watch described her appointment as unlawful. This group was also highly critical of the Fiji Human Rights Commission’s endorsement of the Fiji coup. Shameem was director of this commission from 2007 to 2009 and was a director from 2002.
In the interview with Laidlaw, Shameem kept referring to the United Nations as “we”, but I don’t think she’s worked for some time. Laidlow described her as a former UN rapporteur. Elsewhere on the web Shameem is described as having graduated with a PhD from the University of Waikato in sociology and a master’s degree in law from Auckland.
If I heard correctly, Shameem blamed the Abu Ghraib prison scandal on “contractors”. But wasn’t this prison being run by US Army military police?
Anyone know what’s up with Shameem? She seems to be Left, Right and all over the show.
At least Shameem did see some legitimate role for contractors (I think she said such as guarding refugee camps), but an American interviewee in the same Laidlow programme today showed that the lefties oppose all mercenary use.
Presumably, they would even eliminate the French Foreign Legion.
Mind you Mercenary Activities (Prohibition) Act 2004 would surely make NZers who serve in the Legion criminals liable to 14 years in prison.
I recall that this legislation was promoted through the Greens by Keith Locke, who came from one of NZ’s best known Stalinist families. He was closely supported by the now-offed Goff.
One of the strongest opponents of this ludicrous legislation was bold little Ron Mark, who himself had served in the Oman Army for five years. Mark and Rodney Hide, in his pre-Dancing with the Stars phase, raised the question of the Pope’s mercenary army, the Swiss Guards. Mark also pointed out that East Germany (of all unenlightened hell spots) had at one stage NZ military nurses from going to the Middle East to do humanitarian work. These were technically mercenaries.
Another vigorous opponent was Stephen Franks, who cited the example of New Zealanders who fought against fascism in the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, and of the Flying Tigers, western mercenary pilots who had helped defend China from the Japanese.
United Future supported Labour and the melons in passing this legislation.
Obviously Lefty Pacifists are raising their heads again, safe behind the walls of democracy manned by soldiers and mercenaries.
February 19th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
“a PhD from the University of Waikato in sociology”
That would certainly rank her right up there in the Turing and Feynman category!
February 19th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
The rise of contractors is anaethema to me and I’m a hawk. I read the biography of the guy who founded Blackwater last year. Interesting read.
But at the end of the day you can’t contract out anything more than body-guard protection to anything other than a state-controlled military resource. It just doesn’t work otherwise. There is no justification on earth as to why an Iraqi citizen should be shot and killed by someone not under state orders and state control. That ties the line of responsibility to that state.
It’s a NWO tactic to destabilise the battlefield BTW but that’s another story which I suspect most won’t want to hear.
Anyway, for that reason alone of responsibility, they’re aneathema in my mind for all but executive protection, period. No guards, nothing else.
February 19th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
A good background on Syria
http://www.opinion-maker.org/2012/02/the-road-to-tehran/#
February 19th, 2012 at 6:10 pm
tom hunter’s 2.19pm comment was amusing. I’m a bit slow, but I may have finally figured out his approach. He decides whether someone is a “left winger” and then assumes that any argument from that person can be discredited by reference to the opinions or actions of any other “left winger”. A remarkable approach.
February 19th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
mikenmild
It’s not so remarkable when you stand back & look at it dispassionately. It then becomes obvious that there is a correlation between batshit mad opinions & socialist beliefs.
Once you make the association it is easy to bin the whole mess into File 13.
February 19th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Sad to see Peter Sharp passing away
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/6444912/Cricket-commentator-Peter-Sharp-dies
February 19th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
nasska
Or one could address arguments on their merits…
February 19th, 2012 at 6:35 pm
mikenmild
Problem is that the sheer volume of socialist drivel that assails us at every turn makes us disinclined to search for a spoon full of wheat in a truckload of chaff.
February 19th, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Although drivel is not confined by mere political persuasions of course. One thing most striking in recent days has been the whole Mathers hoo-hah, where many commenting have only really been able to make the connection of Green=wrong, before adding their tuppence worth.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:05 pm
Green=wrong
February 19th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Okay…..
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/
February 19th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
nasska tell me what you think is batshit crazy about the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
February 19th, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Green=wrong
mm, does it occur we decry what they say because in fact, they are, indeed, wrong?
February 19th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
Okay Cha, when does life really begin and what is your rationale for thinking this?
February 19th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
Significant warning from Xi to the US. Reason its significant is he said it while in Washington.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9085413/US-must-respect-Chinas-interests-Xi-Jinping-warns-in-Washington-speech.html
Shows underlying tensions over the US Pacific strategy Obama announced in Australia.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
mikenmild
If you wished to advance the cause of the Greens I don’t think you could have picked a worse example than their attempt to generate pathos from Mathers’ deafness. She has been a staffer in Parliament long enough to know the ropes & if she didn’t know how to seek funding for her communication problems she sure knew who did. It was nothing but a chance to milk a few tears from a gullible public that lead to the MSM feeding frenzy.
While the print & broadcasting media are easily lead, provided that there is a headline to craft out of the crap, the people who frequent centre right blogs are not so easily fooled. They saw the sham for what it was & called it accordingly.
Thing is that socialists, the Greens in particular, remain so naive that they can’t or won’t see that the more they pull stunts like this the more skeptical the thinking public becomes.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
Scott Chris @ 7.24
Not much. Your mistake is trying to draw a link between Liberalism & Socialism.
February 19th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
nasska
There’s another thing – Greens=socialism. Socialism is a much misused term – not just on Kiwiblog. I don’t actually think there is a socialist in our parliament at the moment.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
A blind, profoundly deaf, gay, brown, muslim, thalidomide victim suffering from motor neurone disease with an allergy to varnished woodwork and leather upholstery would seem like a suitable list MP if a vacancy occurs in the ranks of the Greenies perhaps.
I would like to see how Lockwood copes under stress.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
Me, I’ve no dog in this particular fight Scott because I haven’t got a womb. But to answer your question, birth.
This though, from the article:
At some point between 1968 and 2012, the Bible began to say something different. That’s interesting.
It’s the pin dancing that’s going to ensue that will interest me.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
A man and his wife are playing golf, the wife accidentally breaks a window in a nearby house with her golf ball. They go to the house to apologise. The front door is standing open and inside is a smashed lamp. A man appears, they start to apologise, but he silences them.
‘I am the genie of the magic lamp, and you have released me. I can grant three wishes. I will give one of the wishes to each of you, if you will allow me to have the third wish for myself.’
The husband says he wants a hundred thousand dollars every year of his life, and the genie grants it, adding he will have a long, happy and healthy life.
The wife says she wants a house in every capital city of the world, so she has somewhere comfortable to stay while traveling the world. the genie grants the wish, adding that the houses will be beautiful and safe from any harm.
Then it is the genie’s turn. He states that he finds the woman attractive and desirable, and he would live to spend the afternoon having sex with her.
The couple confer and decide it is a price they are willing to pay for the riches that the genie will bestow on them. He takes her upstairs and has passionate vigorous sex with her many times all afternoon, in every conceivable way, until finally the clock strikes five and they collapse exhausted back on the bed.
‘How old are you and your husband?’ asks the genie.
‘My husband is 32 and I am 30′ the wife replies.
‘Amazing! And you both still believe in genies and magic lamps at that age ….’
February 19th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
conspiracy theory 1001
The Greens are going to have their latest moonbat Mojo Mathers spout the latest and greatest and the weird and wonderful ito the public domain
As soon as derision and scorn are piled upon her, the piler will be taken to task for picking on said moonbat because she’s deaf. Then the really stupid idea will get much more publicity than it would otherwise get.
Has this got legs Reid?
February 19th, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Talent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kPvciIdDZAE#!
February 19th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
mikenmild
A true green is a tree hugger…..the extreme left policies of the NZ Green Parliamentary Party are relatively recent add-ons there to broaden its electorate base. Therefore the greens have a socialist bent….
The word socialist has a sufficiently vague enough meaning to include Social Democrats & Marxists……that is a broad enough church to include a few current MPs. They are easy to identify…….they all waffle about “workers’ wights” & espouse totalitarian ideals.
Generally their women have higher testosterone levels than their men.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Generally their women have higher testosterone levels than their men.
Which leads to quite innocuous comments like ” that women’s got a moustache”?
Other greens can then be identified by the howling and hand wringing when innocuous comments like that above are made.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
The 50 most brilliant, obnoxious, or delightfully sociopathic Facebook posts of 2011.
http://www.happyplace.com/13075/the-50-most-brilliant-obnoxious-or-delightfully-sociopathic-facebook-posts-of-2011/page/1
February 19th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
As soon as derision and scorn are piled upon her, the piler will be taken to task for picking on said moonbat because she’s deaf. Then the really stupid idea will get much more publicity than it would otherwise get.
Has this got legs Reid?
Well to a certain extent Paul yes, but to another extent, it doesn’t really work like that, with things like Mojo. It’s complicated, you see.
A true green is a tree hugger
If a tree hugger is hugging a tree and it falls and kills him or her, and there is no-one else around to hear the sound, does anyone care?
February 19th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
@mikey,
Correct. Socialism is characterised by comprehensive regulation by the state, with the state also owning the means of production. [You could argue social ownership', of which state ownership is but one option, but let's keep it simple.]
The Greens (and Labour) are all for comprehensive regulation by the state, but neither are arguing for state ownership of the means of production (the utility companies, one bank and an airline company aside.) No they are comfortable with the means of production being privately owned.
The combination of comprehensive state regulation and private ownership is not a characteristic of socialism.
It is, however, a combination characteristic of fascism…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
(In this sense ‘autarky’ could be used as principle to exclude foreign investment.)
Food for thought
February 19th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
“Doctor, I’m worried my body is changing with this testosterone treatment. I’m growing hair in very unusual places.”
“Don’t worry madam, it’s perfectly normal. Where are you growing this hair?”
“Around my balls.”
February 19th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
reid
No.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
Interesting hitherto unpublished Sir Isaac Newton papers available free online
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2101960/Revealed-esoteric-interests-Britains-greatest-scientist-Sir-Isaac-Newtons-occult-theological-writings-posted-online.html
The link in the article is wrong: this is it.
http://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/gallery/Humanities/Pages/newton.aspx
February 19th, 2012 at 8:37 pm
My mate’s wife left him last Thursday; she said she was going out for
a pint of milk and never came back!
I asked him how he was coping and he
said ‘not bad, I’ve been getting used to the powdered stuff’
February 19th, 2012 at 8:38 pm
MM 8.48am: “Like it or not, Waitangi Day is our national day, as it commemorates the founding of our nation.”
MM 9.43am: “I think Waitangi Day is our founding day, but it doesn’t mean it should necessarily be a day on which we celebrate our great country.”
Firstly, that’s a high level of inconsistency between two comment made less than an hour apart.
Secondly, your “like it or not” style of debate does little to promote your point of view, whatever that point of view may be.
Thirdly, whatever other NZers choose to do (that’s their freedom of choice, of course) I will never regard Waitangi Day as my national day. It has been hijacked, distorted and thrown on the national scrapheap in the sacred causes of Maori separatism and leftist politics. It has had little to do with me or mine for decades. We will now have nothing further to do with it.
Would that our country’s leaders might see the light and discontinue their attendance at Waitangi Day “celebrations”. Even activist journalists could then have a quiet summer day’s holiday.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
The Murdoch thing gets worse and worse. Now at crisis levels. Crikey. C-R-I-K-E-Y. Criiiiiiiikyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/feb/15/met-sun-public-officials
(Since Rupert’s an Aussie I know he appreciates the depth and wisdom behind my above advice.)
February 19th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
A bloke got sacked from his part-time job as a Housie caller the other day….
Apparently “A meal for two with a terrible view” isn’t the best way to announce number 69.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Well, I couldn’t care less if national leaders went to Waitangi each year or not.
But as for inconsistency, you missed the point: Waitangi Day is our national day but that does not oblige anyone to celebrate it as such.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
nasska says:- “Your mistake is trying to draw a link between Liberalism & Socialism.”
Great. Well I hope you continue to draw that distinction. Like mikenmild says, there are very few socialists left these days.
Thing about Liberalism though is that it does require government intervention in order to uphold everyone’s rights.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:01 pm
98% of us would like to celebrate our great nation with out the 2% jumping up and down like a bunch of stone age savages
Declaring Hunting season would make it better.
Or national tree a gween day. It would give my dog loads of fun to go on a gween hunt
We would not actually harm the gween when its up the tree
only when it comes down.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:12 pm
Scott Chris
The difference between Socialists & Liberals is equal to that of chalk & cheese. A true Liberal wants for freedom of the individual & that automatically means less governance.
Socialists are totalitarian by nature. The individual is subservient to the State & whatever means & force are required to keep it that way will be used. They are horrible people who know better how to run our lives than you or me.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:12 pm
I’m pretty sure the correct spelling for green is G-R-E-E-N.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Gween =watermelon hence the need to add the w
green + watermelon = gween
February 19th, 2012 at 9:37 pm
Well, I couldn’t care less if national leaders went to Waitangi each year or not.
I’ve been thinking that if Key does attend Waitangi Marae next year then what he should do to make all the rest of us happy, is to have a historically authentic re-enactment of the Te Tiriti signing event replete with period costumes galore and all the colonial pomp we can possibly muster. Navy gun ships, the lot. Key could dress up and be Hobson, you see. Lockwood could be Bishop Williams. You get the picture.
Anyway, we could placate any resistance from Mana et al by offering them special jobs to organise the poi dancers and things like that, so I’m sure they’ll be pretty happy so what other problems are there?
I think it’s a great idea and if anyone disagrees with me, why, they just hate NZ which means they’re traitors.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Thanks Griff, that’s really hilarious.
February 19th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
You forget the Maori firsters reid
We could have a great big hangi and the maori firsters could volunteer to be the cook or the cooked. That would be returning to tribal ways so they will be happy to play
Very gween way to feed the multitude better than poaching shellfish or crays
and reid could use his super duper ray gun to heat the stones proving the link between modern technology and stone age methods
February 19th, 2012 at 11:54 pm
THE paper trail connecting the climate change denial movement in Australia and the conservative US spin merchants the Heartland Institute.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/web-leak-shows-trail-of-climate-sceptic-funding-20120217-1tegk.html
The Australian Climate Science Coalition, an offshoot of a conservative lobby group called the Australian Environment Foundation, received virtually all its funding from the International Climate Science Coalition, which has been financially supported by Heartland.
In 2010, the Australian group had an income of 50,920, and 46,343 of that came from the American Climate Science Coalition, an offshoot of the International Climate Science Coalition.
The coalition’s main activities seem to be writing letters to newspaper editors, ringing talk back radio programs and flooding websites with comments that attack climate change coverage.
When will we find out about our little nest of Denialists
February 20th, 2012 at 12:26 am
http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/scientists-emails-stolen-heartland-institute-1372.html
February 20th, 2012 at 1:09 am
The Chicago-based Heartland Institute paid the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition grants of US$25,000 ($30,800) and US$45,000 in in 2007.
The coalition said on its website it had never had financial support from corporations, foundations or governments, and “99 per cent of all donations have come from private individuals in the United Kingdom, New Zealand, United States and Australia”.
Asked why the coalition did not disclose its funding from Heartland, Mr Leyland said the money came from private donors who “had no interest in climate change”.
Who is the anonymous doner at heartland??
Who funds “dissuading teachers in teaching science”
February 20th, 2012 at 7:26 am
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10786647