139 Responses to “General Debate 22 February 2012”
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February 22nd, 2012 at 8:02 am
Woop! there it is!
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:04 am
Today. For Christchurch.
I came across an interesting Yorok Native Indian tale about two friends called Earthquake and Thunder.
http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/02/brave-brave-christchurch.html
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:15 am
If you are earthquaked out here’s an immovable object – opinion on asset sales. There was a debate in Dunedin last night on ‘If you were Prime Minister, would you sell New Zealand’s assets?’. Included Chris Trotter, Metiria Turei, Pete Hodgson and Jacqui Dean, plus social, business and academic Dunedinites.
ODT reported an attendance of 200, a show of hands before and after indicated most are anti.
A summary of the debate here.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:17 am
I note from some of the comments that some think my grandsons should have to put with these deviants having sex in the next cubicle or perving on them through a hole they they poked in the cubicle wall next to the urinal.
Gay cruising hot spot
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6450486/North-Shore-toilet-becomes-sex-hotspot
This is why I am proud to be called a homophobe by homosexuals activists and their liberal bedfellows
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:20 am
American Indian Crime Rate Over Double US National Average:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/us/on-indian-reservations-higher-crime-and-fewer-prosecutions.html?ref=us
Gee, what a coincidence. Must be those warrior genes eh? Even though us whiteys had warriors for ancestors too, our warrior genes have magically changed into bourgeois genes.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:35 am
Lol. SC.
I’m feeling rather bourgeois today.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:49 am
Matt McCarten has come up with a novel albeit rather macabre way to pay his IRD debt
http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/hmmm.html
Still; good on him for going to meet his maker with his bills paid…
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:51 am
“Waikato police will not apologise for arresting an “irrational and emotional” Chinese woman in a Hamilton supermarket car park, after an internal investigation found officers acted professionally” This in the herald online. A couple of things come to mind. She does not speak the language, yet she drives her car? As sure as shit in a wood duck she would not try this sort of behaviour back in the homeland. It would not be handcuffs and swear words but a kick in the snatch and a 9mm to the back of the head. She should be thankful, STFU and learn English.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:56 am
Research paper – Social smokers’ management of conflicted identities
Abstract
Background
Although social smoking has increased among young adults, it remains a poorly understood behaviour. The authors explored how young adult social smokers viewed and defined smoking and the strategies they used to reconcile their conflicting smoker and non-smoker identities. The authors also examined alcohol’s role in facilitating social smoking and investigated measures that would decouple drinking and smoking.
Methods
The authors conducted 13 in-depth interviews with young adult social smokers aged between 19 and 25 years and used thematic analysis to interpret the transcripts.
Results
The authors identified four key themes: the demarcation strategies social smokers used to avoid classifying themselves as smokers, social smoking as a tactic that ameliorates the risk of alienation, alcohol as a catalyst of social smoking and the difficulty participants experienced in reconciling their identity as non-smokers who smoke.
Conclusions
Although social smokers regret smoking, their retrospective remorse was insufficient to promote behaviour change, and environmental modifications appear more likely to promote smoke-free behaviours among social smokers. Participants strongly supported extending the smoke-free areas outside bars, a measure that would help decouple their alcohol-fuelled behaviours from the identity to which they aspire.
Full text … Buy this article
– http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2012/01/20/tobaccocontrol-2011-050176.abstract
stuff.co.nz’s Laura Westbrook video –
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/6454141/Study-backs-ban-on-smoking-outside-bars
• bar general manager predicts it will increase binge drinking habits
• young non-pakeha woman – I’ll find a way to smoke
• young non-pakeha woman – it would drive people further down the road, I think it will stop smokers
• young male pakeha – I don’t think anything will stop smokers
• two young non-pakeha women – believe it would stop social smoking
• young Maori woman – they’ll go down the street
• young male pakeha – less smokers will go to bars
appraisal of views of 8 people – only two thought it may curb social smoking, none thought it would stop smoking.
One [an involved professional] believed it would increase binge-drinking instead. This could be the equivalent of Bradford’s anti-smacking law where older children now whack younger children at the instruction of parents who under the law are not allowed to physically discipline their children.
In comparison to the ASPIRE2025 own-goal “research” where –
The researchers noted that, as with all small scale qualitative research, their study had limitations. Only four of those in the study were women, who had been more difficult to recruit than men, while only two reported some Maori ancestry.
– the stuff.co video found 5 women, all non-pakeha
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:09 am
The peaceful followers complain: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/21/nato-commander-orders-probe-improper-disposal-large-number-islamic-religious/#ixzz1mzwTx0kD?test=latestnews
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:12 am
Pete George that sounds like a balanced panel. Must have been put together by Tim Watkin.
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:36 am
Your favorite troll is on the loose. Where is the Magpie going to go now?
Frog has dismissed him and Whale won’t put up with much
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:42 am
# Chuck Bird (1,979) Says:
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:17 am
I note from some of the comments that some think my grandsons should have to put with these deviants having sex in the next cubicle or perving on them through a hole they they poked in the cubicle wall next to the urinal.
You have a fertile imagination. I did not read one comment which said that anyone’s grandsons should be perved on through a hole in the cubicle wall though one comment did seem relevant to your whining:
“If the area is surrounded by trees and the lighting is bad, how are these neighbours seeing what is going on? Put the binoculars away, Grandpa!”
A few comments, however, did point out the prejudice the article promotes as if homosexuals were the only class of people that engage in sexual activity in public places. Personally it’s not my cup of tea but toilets are an inherently dirty place, and public toilets especially so. It’s not as though shitting and pissing are beautiful and sacred activities so the fact that some dirty old homos are in a cubicle getting their jollies hardly brings the place down in my estimation.
Life is short. Better to use it wisely rather than peering out your curtains to see who’s going into a public restroom. Just a suggestion.
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:45 am
The eternal tree-hugger and apologist of crime has spoken.
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:45 am
adze – it was unfortunate Dene Mackenzie had to cancel, but even then it was a tad slanted. But it played well to the crowd.
Anyone is welcome to promote the alternate view, or a more balanced bunch.
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:54 am
Yvette (1,637) Says:
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:56 am
This could be the equivalent of Bradford’s anti-smacking law where older children now whack younger children at the instruction of parents who under the law are not allowed to physically discipline their children.
Is this an anecdote about your own household? If not where does the anecdote originate?
While reasonable people can argue about the merits of smacking vs non-violent methods of discipline, a parent who gets one kid to physically discipline their sibling is seriously twisted and if done on the instruction of the parent then I would presume they would still be legally culpable. That would be like observing that murder is illegal and so instructing someone else to murder on the belief that this shields a person from liability.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:00 am
Shocking, fascinating, entirely unsurprising: the leaked documents, if authentic, confirm what we suspected but could not prove. The Heartland Institute*, which has helped lead the war against climate science in the United States, is funded among others by tobacco firms, fossil fuel companies and one of the billionaire Koch brothers(1).
It appears to have followed the script written by a consultant to the Republican party, Frank Luntz, in 2002. “Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate.”(2)
Luntz’s technique was pioneered by the tobacco companies and the creationists: teach the controversy. In other words, insist that the question of whether cigarettes cause lung cancer, natural selection drives evolution or burning fossil fuels causes climate change is still wide open, and that both sides of the “controversy” should be taught in schools and thrashed out in the media.
The leaked documents appear to show that, courtesy of its multi-millionaire donors, the institute has commissioned a global warming curriculum for schools, which teaches that “whether humans are changing the climate is a major scientific controversy” and “whether CO2 is a pollutant is controversial.”(3).
http://www.monbiot.com/2012/02/20/plutocracy-pure-and-simple/
*Heartland sent money to Owen McShane etc.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:00 am
Weihana-
I think Chuck’s point is that he doesn’t feel safe taking his grandchildren into public restrooms.
I am a 100kg guy in my mid 30s and I don’t feel particularly safe in public restrooms (Nothing more unsettling than taking an emergency pit-stop and noticing a glory hole in the cubicle you are perched in…)
As for- ” as if homosexuals were the only class of people that engage in sexual activity in public places”
I’m sorry but ‘Cottaging’ is predominantly a gay male activity.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:01 am
I agree with Weihana, instructing older children to whack younger children is worse than parents doing the wacking themselves, it’s abusing two children at once.
Blaming current law is just using excuses for violent perversion, major personal irresponsibility.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:06 am
hj: “Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate.”
Smoking? Evolution? Standard fog of ignorance.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:12 am
Yep, philu is banned from frogblog. The thread makes for a good read over your coffee.
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2012/02/21/aspirational-beneficiaries-get-shut-down-and-shamed/
philu gets warned by frog that he’s heading for auto-moderation, and promptly accuses frog of being unable to comprehend phil’s wisdom and insight; asks frog why he’s threatening him; calls frog “just a tech-person hired to look after the blog” who “doesn’t know much about the political nuances”. Frog, not surprisngly, proceeds to put phil into auto-moderation, to which phil replies, “get f*cked”.
Great way to get banned – piss off all the other readers, shamelessly promote your own web-site, and insult the blog-owner/moderator when they call you on it.
Actually, that sounds kinda familiar …
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:16 am
Every now and then Phil’s ‘.’ key gets stuck and he throws a hissy fit.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:24 am
Longknives,
I think a glory hole in the wall of a public restroom is concerning. Not primarily because of the activity that it is intended for but because it’s destruction of public property. However, that aside, it’s a bit OTT to be afraid because of it especially for a grown man. These people get their jollies from doing something risque, they are not out to sexually violate anyone and any fear of such is little more than prejudice.
As for children, ANY public restroom can be cause for concern and children have been attacked at places which are not gay meeting places. Indeed I’m not aware of any reports of children being attacked at a public restroom by homosexuals who are there for sex and certainly there are no reports in relation to the particular restroom that is the subject of this complaint.
Also I agree that “Cottaging” is a predominantly gay male activity. But what I referred to was sex in a public place not a specific subset of such activity. Or is public sex okay elsewhere but not okay in public toilets? Personally I think a straight person getting a handjob from a hooker in his car is worse than a couple of old homos in a public toilet.
Also note I’m not endorsing sex in public toilets or in any public space. It’s not what the facility is intended for and the public has a right to object. But it is the use of this example as a means to further anti-homosexual prejudice which I object to and Chuck is a prime example of that.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:30 am
Weihana – questioning
– older children now whack younger children at the instruction of parents who under the law are not allowed to physically discipline their children.
This is not ‘anecdote’ – urban myth/legend; informal yarn – it is definitely happening in a central North Island primary school.
Authorities should check if it is happening elsewhere.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:50 am
philu
2 march his demerits expire here
I had a laugh seems not all on frog blog dislike his posts.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:51 am
Bra ha ha ha ha ha
Kim Dotcom out on bail
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10787226
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:53 am
Yvette – siblings hitting each other is hardly a new phenomena. But at school with prior instructions from parents? To supposedly avoid the change to S59? And nothing like it happened before? Excuse my sketicism.
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:57 am
Phil U: two children and three adults who abrogate their responsibilities leaving it to working people to provide support. Yet Phil reaps the rich emotional rewards which previously was the payment for child rearing.
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i don’t know how relative this is..but i can’t help but bring this issue back to the personal..
in that i have two children..to two mothers..
thru bad management..(or whatever)..both of these children were conceived in the fag-end of relationships..
..in the first case..i was a rabid junkie at the time..
..all i know is that in both cases..both mothers would in many eyes..have been quite within their ‘rights’..to have had abortions..
i am just forever grateful to them both for not doing that..
and had they done that..
..neither of my beautiful children would be here..
(and a western springs soccer team would be nowhere near as strong in defence..)
so..y know..!
life is messy/imperfect..
..and declamatory absolutes from either side..
..answer/prove nothing..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/06/11/abortion-again/
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:01 am
DPF: How about running a sweepstake on how long it takes Mr Dotcom to flee the coop? Perhaps there could be sidebets on whether he leaves by land or sea….
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:08 am
Great to see Dot com out
Hope he does a runner!
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:12 am
Pete Goeorge – Yvette – siblings hitting each other is hardly a new phenomena.
The children here, in answer to teacher’s questions, said a parent told them to do it because she couldn’t. I really don’t know why you are skeptical – it is just an unanticipated result of S59. Krap happens.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:14 am
Wonder how many AOS members, FBI agents and helicopters will be required to release Dotcom?
How about a trail of freshly baked pies spaced at 2 metres all the way to Coatesville.
Glad to see the hysteria release button finally got pushed by the Courts.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:15 am
Dime: pretty much a certainty I suspect…If they stick an electronic bracelet on him his tech savvy mates will figure a way around that in half an hour….He might have to lose a bit of weight to be less distinctive….I havent got a clue what “file sharing” is, so I cant get into a lather about whether or not he did or didnt do what he is accused of…to misquote Captian Renaud in Casablanca: ” My interest in whether he stays or goes is purely a sporting one…”
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:15 am
Sorry, Pete – George, not Goeorge.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:17 am
Nostalgia: Now that IS a valid consideration…if the FBI want him so badly they ought to pay the costs of monitoring him….I dont think we have quaint old fashioned things like “Bail Sureties” any more do we? FES or other practitioners at the criminal courts …?
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:20 am
This is for Griff (and hj)
peter-gleick-admits-he-obtained-fakegate-documents-by-deception, heartland responds
FEBRUARY 20, 2012: Earlier this evening, Peter Gleick, a prominent figure in the global warming movement, confessed to stealing electronic documents from The Heartland Institute in an attempt to discredit and embarrass a group that disagrees with his views.
Gleick’s crime was a serious one. The documents he admits stealing contained personal information about Heartland staff members, donors, and allies, the release of which has violated their privacy and endangered their personal safety.
An additional document Gleick represented as coming from The Heartland Institute, a forged memo purporting to set out our strategies on global warming, has been extensively cited by newspapers and in news releases and articles posted on Web sites and blogs around the world. It has caused major and permanent damage to the reputations of The Heartland Institute and many of the scientists, policy experts, and organizations we work with.
A mere apology is not enough to undo the damage.
In his statement, Gleick claims he committed this crime because he believed The Heartland Institute was preventing a “rational debate” from taking place over global warming. This is unbelievable. Heartland has repeatedly asked for real debate on this important topic. Gleick himself was specifically invited to attend a Heartland event to debate global warming just days before he stole the documents. He turned down the invitation.
Gleick also claims he did not write the forged memo, but only stole the documents to confirm the content of the memo he received from an anonymous source. This too is unbelievable. Many independent commentators already have concluded the memo was most likely written by Gleick.
We hope Gleick will make a more complete confession in the next few days.
We are consulting with legal counsel to determine our next steps and plan to release a more complete statement about the situation tomorrow. In the meantime, we ask again that publishers, bloggers, and Web site hosts take the stolen and fraudulent documents off their sites, remove defamatory commentary based on them, and issue retractions. [Emphasis added.]
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:22 am
David – hes guilty as sin lol He hosted a site where people could upload movies/music/tv shows etc and then post links on forums etc. once those people downloaded the uploader made some $$$.
in saying that. shit happens. the guy seems likeable and he bought me off with a fireworks display.
i hope he escapes the country via submarine or something
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:22 am
Dotcom will hang around, running isn’t an option for him, the Feds will be all over him where ever he is bailed to. He will be reunited with his family until the extradition process kicks in.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:26 am
Want a small wager Kevin? His main problem would be finding a body double to keep the attention of surveillance for long enough ….
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:26 am
Yvette – one example of stupid parenting is hardly a landslide of vindication for the anti S59 brigade. They are likely to have been violent parents before the law change too.
I don’t accept S59 as an excuse for any sort of violence.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:34 am
David Garrett (891) Says:
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:26 am
Want a small wager Kevin? His main problem would be finding a body double to keep the attention of surveillance for long enough ….
My thought, too. And for a clever brain with nothing else to do, creating a new persona would be akin to making merry mischief. But what about the wife and kids, and would he be any better off anywhere else?
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:36 am
PG: You often say quite sensible things…if you think the smack my son gets on the calf very occasionally is “violence” you are not the reasonable “middle of the road” chap you portray yourself as…
What vermin like these two do to their hapless kids EVERY DAY is “violence”…. its a bit like equating the cane with capital punishment and saying there is no real difference, because both involve “violence”
Come in Northland Wahine ffs!!
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:38 am
wf: As for the first question, I understand if he gets to Germany he is immune from extradition on these offences….as to the second, once he has flown the gaff there is nothing anyone can do to prevent the wife and kids following him…
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:39 am
“Many independent commentators”
Link please
Is this any different to climate gate?
Heartland is doomed
good job
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:42 am
Thank you Rufus, hj, Gleick confessed to stealing (yes, it is actual theft and wire fraud, criminal charges both state and federal in the US) a set of board papers from Heartland.
One aspect though that should put the hate campaign against Heartland in perspective. These private (not public and subject to FOI like the Climategate emails) papers do reveal Heartlands annual budget. So how much does this core of all evil opposing AGW get ? Must be hundreds of millions from the oil industry and related evil doers, right ? Sadly, their income is $7.7 million, get that, this fount of all evil has so little money that it is hardly pocket change, WWF gets over $200 million, Greenpeace got over $300 million from governments alone last year, and Gleick’s institute, who funded that and with how much ?
Even those evil Koch brothers, gosh, they gave $25,000 last year, and to the specific medical fund at Heartland. Wow, just wow. The whole AGW schtick must be so desperate that a thinktank with a mere $8 Million a year is such a threat that they have to lie, cheat, and steal to shut it down. And all that time the AGW industry receives in total probably hundreds or even thousands of times as much funding, and they still can’t get past the deceptions, can they ?
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:46 am
David G – I wasn’t referring to anything like “the smack my son gets on the calf very occasionally”.
Yvette was talking about one parent apparently instructing an older child to whack a younger child at school (when the parent was presumably not there).
I’ve no reason to believe you would contract out smacking on your child’s calf to another child, in your absence.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:46 am
Pete George – Yvette – one example of stupid parenting is hardly a landslide of vindication for the anti S59 brigade.
These, more than one case, are not a vindication of s59 in any way – no one, certainly not me, suggested yet it is.
I mentioned this unforeseen outcome in relation to the dopey ASPIRE2025 own-goal “research”, which may kerb ‘social smoking’ but increase binge drinking – bolt down you usual drinks because you need to get somewhere then to smoke.
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:51 am
Interesting bit of news here:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10787167
“The email sent by Mr Hayes to Mr McCully on April 20 last year was leaked to TV3 by a source calling himself Yuri Petrov.”
Yuri Petrov is George Peters in Russian.
What HAVE you been up to Peter George?
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:54 am
lie, cheat, and steal
Tax evasion is also a criminal offense
You did not mention the anonymous doner
Would you like to tell us of all the other so called independent think tanks funding this manufactured controversy?
how about the kiwi link
http://hot-topic.co.nz/puppets-on-a-string-us-think-tank-funds-nz-sceptics/
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:05 pm
I was amused today to find that the headlines announcing the “Greek Rescue” are pretty much the same headlines announced in June/July 2011.
Amazingly it still seems to be working, judging by the effects such headlines have had on the Euro exchange rates and various stockmarkets around the world. I’ve lost count of the number of such major headlines – “Rescue Package Announced” – from the last two years but it must be approaching a couple of dozen.
It seems that many people, not least in European political and bureaucratic circles as well as international finance, want to be deceived.
In any case the following article basically fisks one of these MSM pieces – Greek Headline Reality Check:
And then there’s another example of the reality of what is being asked of Greece, especially their tax collectors:
That’s one hell of a productivity increase!.
I predict that two economies will develop side-by-side in Greece over the next few months and years. The first economy will be a hollow shell of Greek politicians and government operatives who act as a sluice for bailout money continuing to run towards the European institutions that lent the money in the first place.
The second economy will be the classic black market one that is always created by people desperate to survive. It will first run on barter, then foreign currencies, probably Chinese given the degree they are piling into cheap Greek assets, and finally to a local currency (NewDrachma) as the first economy slowly evaporates for lack of any real economic activities occurring within it.
As a matter of curiosity, since I stopped watching TV news and reading the local rags years ago, have either of those sources carried anything even close to the sort of analysis of Greece that one can find on the Web?
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Hey Griff, yes, it is VERY different to Climategate.
1. No Climategate emails were faked, they were all genuine, the truth works;
2. No fraud or misrepresentation is known to be involved in obtaining the Climategate emails, the actual source is simply unknown even after 3 years of police investigation;
3. When they were first released, efforts were made to prove the provenance and accuracy of them before they were released onto the internet (unlike Gleickgate when all the documents including the fake startegy were publsihed within minutes);
4. Heartland is a private organization, whether you like it or not they are entitled to private information. Climategate involved emails to & from a public institution subject to FOI and environmental regulations that requires the release of such information. That the email’s authors actively conspired to evade FOI requirements and destroy data that should legally be released is also germane;
Heartland is doomed, must be so satisfactory for you that criminal acts destroys such a powerful advocate for opposition to AGW alarmism, all $7.7 million dollars of it !
I guess you’ll support Peter Gleick being returned to his position on the AGU Ethics committee then, and back onto the board of NCSE (National Centre for Science Education, defending the teaching of evolution and climate science) then ? So he can teach scientists about ethics and children about honesty in science ? After all, he’s a hero really isn’t he ?
Admit it Griff, you and many others have been pwned big time over this. You went all gleeful about the revelations about Heartland wanting to prevent the teaching science, only to find that it’s all a lie; it’s just what you and all the alarmists want to believe, that that, unfortunately for you, doesn’t make it true. An honest person would, at this point, apologize and admit the faults that have been demonstrated, but I won’t hold my breath…
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:11 pm
No proberbly not
MSM is bread and circuses for the masses.
I read the papers on the web
however any interesting news needs to be explored in depth on line
TV Purchased a new one five years ago
Do not Know why its only been turned on twice since
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:14 pm
Net Ivanboy, ya ne paneemau ruski.
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Which is obvious because it should have been hе мальчик, Джон, я не знаю, Россия
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:19 pm
it’s all a lie?
You and all the rest of the anti science league want to believe that unfortunately for you, that doesn’t make it a lie. An honest person would, at this point, apologize and admit the faults that have been demonstrated, but I won’t hold my breath…
gee spin works both ways
every time climate gate comes up we get to post
“dissuade teachers from teaching science”
hehehe
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:29 pm
A leopard never change its spots: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8423617/french-police-detain-dsk-in-sex-ring-probe
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:30 pm
New Zealand,”last place clean land of the world”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dObf4p287OY
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:38 pm
The faces of two savages that could be set free sooner rather than later: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10787074
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:47 pm
Well hasn’t it been a funny time in the world of crimate seance?
February 22nd, 2012 at 1:11 pm
From: Delays in privatising ACC work account
I’m glad that was highlighted and has now been confirmed as only hypothetical.
ACC levies have been climbing for all of this century, until this year’s drop. An increase next year – at the same time as the revised start date for ACC public accounts – would look a tad suspicious.
Private companies are so efficient they can do it for less, including their profit margin. Can’t they?
February 22nd, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Gimme a break. Of course Dotcom isn’t going to skip bail. The case against him is far from ‘open and shut’.
Judge Dawson:
“It would seem that he has every reason to stay (in New Zealand) to be with his family and to fight to keep his significant assets”
also:
“The disposition that he is wealthy and must have more assets is not evidence.”
Sensible Judge.
February 22nd, 2012 at 1:44 pm
David Garrett
11.17
The FBI should be paying for everything.
It emerges the extradiction hearing won’t be until August but the application must be made in the next couple of weeks.
This increasingly looks staged for international impact and the opportunity to depower megaupload from its revenue. It also underlines they could have just knocked on his door to arrest him, or asked him to go to the station.
Suddenly he is less dangerous than a couple of months ago.
I’m glad our Courts have put at least some aspects of this into perspective.
I bet he’s eating a big sausage right now.
Good on him.
February 22nd, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Yes, sure you can repeat that Griff, but repeating a lie just don’t make it true. Heartland’s documents don’t say “dissuade teachers from teaching science”, only Peter Gleick does, and the alarmists want to do just that. Shows how dishonest you actually are more than anything else.
At least though, you’re quite clear that you support criminal behaviour for “the cause”. Science should stoop so low.
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Yvette,
The children here, in answer to teacher’s questions, said a parent told them to do it because she couldn’t. I really don’t know why you are skeptical – it is just an unanticipated result of S59. Krap happens.
I think I would want more than the kid’s say so before believing such a tale. Perhaps the parents are that stupid but kids are also known to make up excuses for their behaviour. In any case even if we accept such behaviour is an unintended consequence of s59 I’m not sure what you can do to guard against people who do not understand the law. It would seem easier to address their misunderstanding rather than imagine all the ways in which people can misunderstand the law.
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Ed Snack
Regardless of what you may think of the way in which the Heartland Documents were obtained, the Heartland Institute has been unequivocally exposed as just another Dirty Washington Lobby Group funded by self-interested corporates seeking to undermine Science and misinform the public to serve their own nefarious ends.
The irony that they, of all people should cry foul over Gleick’s unethical behaviour appears to be lost on you.
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:20 pm
Ed Snack
Heart land and the rest of the league of anti science continues to use the climate gate emails in propaganda
They were obtained illegally Nine independent inquiries have found no wrong doing on the side of the scientists.
They continue to be dishonestly misrepresented on this web site and else were.
You are proposing that I hold a higher effical status for my side than you do for yours.
why should I ?
The document that states “dissuade teachers from teaching science”
Is not proven to be a fake If you think it valid to take heartlands word for that you are incredibly naive.
Efforts were made to validate the rest of the documents which have proven to be true.
You are laying a red herring on the table over the legitimacy of one document out of nine.
I was onto this in real time and actually watched the damage control discussion on wuwt blog as it happened on line.
Heartland is dishonest and the allegations against it were well known before the release of these documents.
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Re Dotcom bail:
“The disposition that he is wealthy and must have more assets is not evidence.
Hear hear. About time.
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:38 pm
The deranged mullahs refused to budge:: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/21/un-nuclear-agency-says-iran-blocking-probe-into-atomic-work/
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:40 pm
dime (3,952) Says:
February 22nd, 2012 at 11:22 am
David – hes guilty as sin lol He hosted a site where people could upload movies/music/tv shows etc and then post links on forums etc. once those people downloaded the uploader made some $$$.
You mean like Youtube or a hundred other websites? A site enabling users to upload movies, music and tv shows is not illegal any more than the owner of a storage company is liable if a customer stores stolen goods in their locker.
My understanding is that this case rests on e-mails Dotcom supposedly sent. This is because the prosecution will try and use them to show criminal intent and willful blindness to what users were doing.
I suspect it unlikely that they have enough evidence to convict. The simple fact is that Dotcom never needed to conspire to have people upload illegal content. They will do it without Dotcom making an effort so on the face of it the suggestion that he conspired to have illegal content uploaded seems ridiculous.
On the other hand the law is so loosely written now that civil liability for copyright infringement can be found on the basis of “inducement” which is so open ended that not even Google, in theory, is free from liability given that in the beggining Google links people to sites where they can obtain copyrighted material. This is the basis upon which Limewire was shutdown despite not hosting a single copyrighted file, nor maintaining an index of any such files but merely because they created a program which allowed users to connect to each other to share information.
Copyright has become the enemy of innovation and a tool of corporate interests who want to maintain their dominance of the market by buying off legislators to destroy their competition with new laws.
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Scott and Weihana: I think you will find the word is “deposition”….disposition is how things have been disposed of…if you have copied from somewhere it is a stenographer’s typo….one with even less knowledge of English than you two…
He will fly…but as I have said, my interest in this is merely a sporting one…since I have little understanding of the crime he is accused of…if indeed it is one….
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:48 pm
With the money he has I would be looking for a boat to leave as soon as
in fact if offered enouth money I would take him my self
His family are free to go there is little holding him here other than the value of his name
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:53 pm
Griff eh? “True or not who cares” sums him up nicely
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:55 pm
I was talking to a mariner friend of mine – a retired deepwater tug skipper – who described exactly how he would get him out of the country – provided they can get him from the mansion in Coatesville to a beach on the west coast (that will be the hard bit), and how much he would charge to get him to any port in Asia.
Similar conversations will be going on all around the country, and some of those people will still have the vessels which could be used for such a jaunt. Or perhaps “the Feds” – as someone who watches too much American TV has said – will follow him around the mansion, 24 hours a day. I dont think so.
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:58 pm
weihana
2.40
Good post.
Though I’m not sure, I’ve thought this case was rightly more a civil claim than a criminal one.
I don’t recall how it exactly works but megaupload did offer monetary inducements of some type.
A couple of weeks ago Viking2 posted a link that showed that some one the ‘victims’ in this, record or movie company, were not paying their own clients for internet downloads.
You might have some thoughts on the siezures of money and assets to the NZ Government and the ‘restraint’ on megaupload abililty to continue business prior to any convictions and the fairness or legality of that.
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:21 pm
David Garrett,
I havent got a clue what “file sharing” is, so I cant get into a lather about whether or not he did or didnt do what he is accused of…
With respect, isn’t this exactly the problem with our legislators? While you were not there for the final reading of the copyright amendment bill, you were there for the first and by your own admission you know nothing about the subject to which the bill related. I don’t believe you are alone in this regard and it is a travesty when it is people like yourself who are passing these laws.
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Weihana: For you it is a travesty that people like me are allowed to breathe…( that’s breathe with an “e” – the verb; rather than breath, the noun)
Did you not actually know that whether a bill passes first reading or not – thereafter either to be consigned to the bin or referred to Select Committee where it is examined clause by clause – depends on whether a deal has been done by the major party in government and its support parties? Did you really not know that?
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:30 pm
David Garrett,
Scott and Weihana: I think you will find the word is “deposition”….disposition is how things have been disposed of…if you have copied from somewhere it is a stenographer’s typo….one with even less knowledge of English than you two…
I don’t claim to have much knowledge about the English language but disposition seems to be the correct word.
[S + to infinitive] formal a natural tendency to do something, or to have or develop something
a disposition to deceive
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/disposition?q=disposition
He will fly…
I disagree. Maybe I’m naive but I don’t believe it as easy as you imagine. Also he has a significant financial interest in seeing the extradition order removed so he can reclaim his assets.
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Garrett – The words disposition and deposition both work in that context and do not alter the meaning of the sentence, so your observation though possibly correct is both needlessly and characteristically pedantic. Obviously it was cut and pasted. Twice.
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:35 pm
David Garrett (898) Says:
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:27 pm
Weihana: For you it is a travesty that people like me are allowed to breathe…( that’s breathe with an “e” – the verb; rather than breath, the noun)
Where does this imagined sense of victimhood come from? Do you what you like, I just think you should know something about the legislation that comes before you as a member of parliament. Whether or not you will personally influence the outcome is irrelevant in my view.
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Chris: yes, I am being pedantic….but you are simply showing your illiteracy….the words are not synonyms or even homonyms….a “deposition” is a statement made under oath, and is a creature of American jurisprudence….a dispositon is ….not!
I am a touch puzzled though….to say ” a deposition is not evidence” is tantamount to saying an affidavit is not evidence, and I have first hand knowledge that it is indeed…but perhaps whoever cut and pasted the quote in the first place forgot something crucial like “…which has not been subjected to cross examination…”
Weihana: Funnily enough I prefer my old battered Concise Oxford to something found on the net when it comes to word meanings…
But I am being pedantic….you keep using whatever word makes you comfortable…
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:48 pm
I really am a sad bastard…debating semantics with two anonymous commenters on the bloody interweb….I must go and do something more productive…weed the garden and harvest some beans or something…
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:48 pm
Nostalgia-NZ,
I don’t recall how it exactly works but megaupload did offer monetary inducements of some type.
As I recall they profited from memberships which remove certain restrictions on download. But people could be downloading either legitimate material or copyrighted material and my understanding is that the onus is still on the rights holder to issue a take down notice and for Dotcom to comply when legitimate notices are received.
You might have some thoughts on the siezures of money and assets to the NZ Government and the ‘restraint’ on megaupload abililty to continue business prior to any convictions and the fairness or legality of that.
Not sure what I think there. If a criminal enterprise exists then surely the government should be able to stop it without a conviction. As an analogy if I’m driving drunk the police would stop me and not allow me to continue driving. They wouldn’t wait until a conviction was obtained.
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:54 pm
# David Garrett (901) Says:
February 22nd, 2012 at 3:48 pm
I really am a sad bastard…debating semantics with two anonymous commenters on the bloody interweb….I must go and do something more productive…weed the garden and harvest some beans or something…
Perhaps we are all sad bastards. I find arguing to be entertaining for some reason.
February 22nd, 2012 at 4:12 pm
KevinH 11:22 am. Assuming he hasn’t committed any serious crimes, he should have his lawyers pursue all necessary delaying tactics until January 21st 2013. An incoming Republican administration, which isn’t likely to be in thrall to Hollywoood, and the ‘music industry’, might not be too interested in going after him. Hopefully, they’ll have bigger fish to fry.
cheers
David Prosser
February 22nd, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Weihana
3.48
What might have been an ‘inducement’ was a bonus of some sort. I remember reading in an outline of the charges that either a user or downloader (probably both mean the same) earned a bonus or incentive of 2 or 3 thousand dollars. But membership was certainly at a fee.
That analogy of drunk driving isn’t so useful here. Dotcom wasn’t an immediate threat to other road users (or internet users – maybe copyright holders if it is proven,) appears also to have been investigated for some years which tends to put the urgency issue to one side. As we see now, the States are yet to file their extradition application – although time wise the shoe could now be seen ‘to be on the other foot’ because they’ve seized his assets and closed his business so time might no longer be important to the FBI in the case against Mr Dotcom.
I note the Crown are applealing the bail being granted.
February 22nd, 2012 at 4:17 pm
Re DotCom
David Garret seems to be reading ‘The Day of the Jackal’
February 22nd, 2012 at 4:23 pm
DJP6-25 Get real.
“assuming he hasn’t committed any serious crime…..”
Surely a court will decide that.
No respect for rule of law ?
Very cynical and quite naive David.
u feel that US Justice is in the thrall of Hollywood ?
Get real.
When did Dotcom become your hero ?
Cheers
bereal
February 22nd, 2012 at 4:37 pm
By the way.
Hey David Garrett, don’t let these fuckwits get to you.
After all, they are just fuckwits.
See, ‘Rat’ for example.
Not a huge intellect.
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:16 pm
Why is it that so many correspondents here on KB have a hard on for Dotcom ?
i guess that it is either, they just hate cops like Viking2 or,
they just hate the USA.
Seems they have no respect for the rule of law (kinda like David Prosser) or,
they are annoyed because they believe that the NZ Justice system is so weak that it is open
to be manipulated by the big bad FBI.
Kim Dotcom will have the best of defence, both here and if extradited, in the USA.
He will either be found guilty or not guilty under the law.
If he is able to avoid extradition under our law, good on him.
You either have faith/ belief in the law or not.
Whats your problem ?
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:22 pm
John”BOY” key can you get things moving down there in ChCh??? a stupid grin and a money market DEALING background dosnt cut the mustard sonnyboy. I have post a clip of the Japanese experiance after their earthquake,Far worse thanCHCH and they have moved ahead and all you have to offer is Jerry B and smarlly sound bites, watch what the japs faced ,I would have been scared,AND I FEEL FOR CHRISTCHURCH but not the tosser national party,sitting on their hands.
watch,SCARY
http://youtu.be/Unb4OUb7W00
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:26 pm
Laws are only for rich whitey Beryl.
Ask any ethnic!
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Of course you are right Johnboy.
What would be the point in having an “Old boys network” if it didn’t look after the ‘Old boys” ?
But what i see exposed here in all these xx wits arguing on behalf of Dotcom against the rule of law is similar to how
fucked up our country is becoming.
We just had the anniversary of the earthquake in Christchurch but who is focusing upon the totally fucked up Christchurch City Council ? The Peoples Republic of Christchurch is not capable of helping itself. The whole country is in danger of going the same way.
The voice of reason has been lost.
PC has become the God in NZ.
So sad.
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:47 pm
scott chris:Must be those warrior genes eh? Even though us whiteys had warriors for ancestors too, our warrior genes have magically changed into bourgeois genes.
Not sure what this is supposed to mean. Gene frequencies frequently vary between ethnic groups.
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:50 pm
bereal
5.43
Don’t be sad.
I’d have an argument with you but I’m trying to give up talking dirty.
February 22nd, 2012 at 6:05 pm
Nostalgia’
Man up.
Don’t be a sook.
If you feel i’m wrong, be a man.
Lets hear from a genius like you, where i got it wrong.
Either you can explain yourself or not.
Get it Noddy ?
You my friend, are a sick example of what is fucking up our country.
a weak POS who is not up to it.
February 22nd, 2012 at 6:16 pm
bereal
6.05
I’m fine thanks.
I once aske a bloke like you if he’d like a kick in the gonads
and he said no thanks, I just put one out.
But just cause you lonely and sad,
you can explain why it took 70 cops and 2 helicopters
to arrest Dotcom when now he’s deemed safe enough to be
out on bail.
And when you get through telling me that, tell me how it is
that his business is shut down and his money is taken, and why
he shouldn’t be allowed to run his business here in NZ like he was doing before.
Your so soft bereal, you ought to rename yourself marshmallow pussy.
February 22nd, 2012 at 6:46 pm
“you can explain why it took 70 cops and 2 helicopters
to arrest Dotcom when now he’s deemed safe enough to be
out on bail.”
Phew. The hard ones first eh!
I know, I know the answer.
The cops are a bunch of over the top, fascist, bastards in the pay of US big business!
Judge Nevin Dawson is a wonderful, touchy-feely, caring, sort of Judge!
February 22nd, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Poor old Nostalgia,
you sad sack.
,
you, you moron seem fixated with’ how’ your hero was arrested.
i don’t need to explain anything to you.
Get this……….
i believe in the rule of law.
i believe that your hero Dotcom will be able to defend himself, both here, and in the USA, if he is deported, within the law.
The same law that applies to you and me.
Why. in your mind, is that principle tharwted by the number of law enforcement officers that arrested him.
Once again, just to help you focus baby.
He will have the best defence money can buy.
The Law will take its course, both here and in the USA.
Where is your problem ?
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:12 pm
Dotcom can be prosecuted if he flees to Germany it now appears, how come the FBI did’nt know this or did they bullshit at the bail hearing.? Considering all FBI agents require a law degree it would appear to be basic stuff.
There are several hundred NZers I’d rather see banged up than him. He appears to have committed no offence against NZ statutes.
Mind you this is the USA that some how got that international criminal Martha Stewart jailed for insider trading.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Bereal
What ” rule of law” has Kim Dotcom broken in New Zealand?
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Lord Birkenhead may, at this very moment, be jetting to Dotcoms place to offer his services, seeing how the welfare cheque is down a bit this month.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Still the Urewera uglies are out on bail and it took more than 70 cops and 2 choppers to arrest them.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:23 pm
Better than an old ewe Johnboy, wanna share?.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/318189
NSFW
http://www.missfidget.com/2012/02/13/at-age-18-woman-finds-out-she-has-2-uteruses/
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:25 pm
I might have twelve inches cha but unfortunately it is in one item so I couldn’t help the lady!
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Young Indian chappie out on bail, murdered the girl he’d been stalking but hell a geek who made a few quid spends a month in jail because of a grand jury decision in another country!
Thats’ the whole problem with this, I really don’t care about him the person, I do care about NZ being dictated to in this way.
If people want to start on ‘ the rule of law’ thats fine but its New Zealands ‘rule of law ‘ thats should be applied not that of another country
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Now we have a genius like constable Pauleastbay wondering why?
Why,oh why.
Why. why ?
no wonder you never got past constable Paul.
FYI we have a exrtardition agreement with certain countries, the USA is one of them.
He may not have committed an offence against Nz statutes. But…. need i spell it out for you ?
What a fukin moron.
Bet you think Martha Stewart was innocent too.
Moron.
Thats you i was calling a moron Pauleastbay just in case you were too dumb to get it.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:29 pm
Constabule Eastbay Beryl!
Hell I thought he was a QC like Lord Birkenhead.
Poser!
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:40 pm
bereal,
Could you explain some more about how extradition treaties work. I thought they were for people who committed a crime and had fled justice. They are sent back to that country for trial.
But I don’t think that’s the case with Dotcom. He was arrested in NZ for something which presumably isn’t an offence here (otherwise he’d be tried here.) So he’s not being sent back, he’s just being sent.
The implication is that the US could issue an arrest warrant for any one of us – for something which may not even an offence in NZ – and the police here would scoop us up and send us to the States, even if we’ve never been out of NZ in our lives.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:49 pm
bereal
pissed or stoned again?
Just because there is an extradition agreement in place it does not automatically mean that “whoever” is put on a plane because someone says so. Our legal system is a wee bit more sophisticated than that.
This is like the Martha Stewart situation in that a person is jailed or faces jail for a serious length of time because of a self-interest group . If Dotcom is found guilty what purpose would be served by jailing him for 20 years?
This is being driven by Hollywood Studios and producers who are the biggest tax dodgers and genius accountants on the planet. The same who since the wax disc was invented have been ripping off artists.
And on a personal note, why don’t you join the New Zealand Police and enforce the rule of law that you blather on about so often, I loved it, at the very least they will teach you how to spell and string a coherent sentence together.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:49 pm
bereal
7.20
Normally I’d hate the guys guts myself, and he’s got a lot them, because he had a pink cadillac and not not black one with tinted windows. – maybe with something on the aerial like a huge condom befitting the man’s status. But it was in the papers, and I know papers aren’t so accurate. but anyway the papers following some public concern about what was happening to old dotcom, getting all his stuff stolen and thrown in prison, said that seized property and money would be going to the NZ Government. I got suspicious about that bereal, because if he can never get convicted of any crime in NZ why are we stealing his property. I got the impression that comment, which was from the FBI by the way, was a sell off.
I don’t like sell offs.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Well it’s obviously pretty deep stuff for you Wat, but I suspect that we have an extradition treaty with the US and if the authorities there issue an arrest warrant for him in the US they ask us to arrest him here and extradite him to the US.
Cybercrime I guess knows no physical borders so maybe you don’t have to have been in a country to commit a cybercrime there.
I’m not a QC of course!
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:53 pm
Dear wat dabney,
Poor dear wat dabney,
Extraditions are for people who have also been ACCUSED of a crime, and in the USA as indited by a Grand Jury.
Dont worry mate, you wont be extradited.
Relax.
It Doesn’t matter how fukin dumb you are you wont be extradited.
Just as well ‘Pig Ignorant’ is not an extraditable offence.
Then you would be in shit creek.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:53 pm
I’m not a QC of course!………………..
but you can be JB , trust me, you can
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:53 pm
wat dabney
7.40
Goal!
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Whats the story on slinging your Bushmaster so the muzzle points at your foot PEB?
Os had a good photo.
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:57 pm
I was gone prior to the bushmaster, never even had a play with one
Just had a quick wiki regarding extradition and the “dual criminality ” bar to extradition will be interesting.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:04 pm
Explain (for us not yet QC’s) PEB.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:07 pm
bereal,
But the point is that surely the US can only use the extradition process to have someone returned there for crimes they committed there. They can’t just issue arrest warrants for people who live on the other side of the world, for doing things which are not even an offence in that other country.
That’s what I’m asking you to clarify as you seem to know about such things.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:08 pm
It’s 2:00 in the morning and the traveller calls the front desk at his motel and asks for some female company but with certain physical characteristics.
“She’s got to be taller than 6 ft. and weigh no more than 100 pounds,” he tells the desk clerk. 30 minutes later, there’s a knock on his door and he opens it to see a tall, lithe young lady.
“I’m here for your pleasure, sir,” she says.
“What do you weigh and how tall are you?”
She replies, “6’2 and 97 pounds.”
“Perfect,” he says. “Now take off all your clothes and get down on all fours on the floor.”
As she does this, he walks to the bathroom door, opens it and ushers in a big St. Bernard dog.
The dog looks at the girl and the girl looks at the dog and the man says, “Now Fritz, do you see what you’re going to look like if you don’t finish your dinner?”
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:15 pm
Another mix for the pot. The French agents, convicted of manslaughter were surrended to France to complete their sentences in the relatively luxury of the south seas. By comparison, Dotcom a NZ resident, not convicted of any crime here, having had all his money seized, will be sent to USA to serve 20 years or more.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:15 pm
cut to the chase.
Why do Paulestbay, and wat dabney, and Nostalgia,etc , feel the need to suck Kim Dotcoms cock ?
Why do you want to do that girls ?
Why ?
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:18 pm
So you finally got to get your rocks off bereal.
I hope you feel better now.
Take an aspro and go to sleep.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:28 pm
bereal
i believe in the rule of law.
i believe that your hero Dotcom will be able to defend himself, both here, and in the USA, if he is deported, within the law.
The same law that applies to you and me.
Call me cynical, but this appears a case of the RIAA and the MPAA wielding their political influence to get the US authorities to do their bidding which in turn is getting people like Simon Power to do their bidding here in New Zealand. To believe that the OTT manner in which Dotcom was arrested is unrelated to the backroom politics between the US and the NZ government seems pretty naive.
Moreover, given the likely weak criminal case it seems probable that the real motive for this prosecution is to simply get Dotcom into the United States so that civil proceedings can be taken against him.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/29/megaupload_criminal_charges_flawed/
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:33 pm
bereal,
I downloaded this summary document about the 1999 Extradition Treaty
http://www.mfat.govt.nz/downloads/treaties-and-international-law/Extradition-Act-summary.pdf
Any request for extradition from New Zealand must relate to an “extraditable offence” which
is defined as an offence that:
• Carries a maximum penalty of not less than one year’s imprisonment in the requesting
country; and
• Involves conduct that would be regarded as criminal had it occurred in New Zealand, and
would have carried a similar penalty.
• Is specified by the extradition treaty, if there is one.
To me it seems clear that extradition is to return people to the country where the crime was committed (“conduct that would be regarded as criminal had it occurred in New Zealand”.)
If that’s the case then the US arrest warrant can only relate to activities Dotcom carried while he was in the US and not in NZ or Germany.
Have I got that right?
Are we talking about the difference between extradition and rendition?
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:34 pm
What I don’t understand about the dual criminality requirement for extradition is that everything Dotcom supposedly did in the United States he did in New Zealand as well. So if what he did is truly a crime in the United States then why isn’t it a crime in New Zealand and why aren’t the NZ authorities prosecuting him?
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:39 pm
Maybe if he just paid us another $10M we could look the other way while he escaped.
Wait a minute. We would have to bail him first eh!
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:40 pm
Lets face it we are fuckin stony broke folks!
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:42 pm
wat dabney
8.33
Well I’m not in favour of any renditions for bereal where he doesn’t freely offer consent, even though his 4th form teacher is reported to have said he needed ‘a good cuff around the lugs’ for talking dirty during science experiments.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:47 pm
I see shit for brain has arrived on the scene with his twin , the arsehole mr plebe.
Plebe have you bothered to do the research to give me ananswer to the question I asked l;ast night.
Of course not it was way beyond your comprhension.
brianfartreal.
The answer of course is that he had not broken the law in any court proven way and was just victimised and closed down. Now I don’t expect you to understand that but at least give them the credit that they had lots of legal advice before and during their operation. They not dumb fucks like you which is why you are broken arsed and they were not. Your problem is typical socialist envy. You would make a bloody good storm trooper. All piss and wind, bravado and bullshit and alltogether too much of what the cat licks its arse with. Have a pleasant evening.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:53 pm
Mr Garrett
I have much respect for lots of things you say but on this one you should do some home work First up consider what a good barrister will get as a binus if and when the prove the yanks wrong in court which they will. Then when they go after compensation.
Now I can see the above fruitloops ranting but the NZ Govt. will be in line for dishing up a lot of that compo.
Yes that’s you’se and Me’s.
Now a smart lawyer would be looking for a piece of that I reckon cause there will be plenty to share. You have a lot of gardening time right now. why don’t you stop feeling sorry for your self and become an expert about this stuff. Because like it or not there is going to be a whole lot more if the Yankie fim industry get their way.
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:53 pm
chiz says:- “Not sure what this is supposed to mean”
It means that I reject the idea that the putative warrior gene/s has anything to do with the relatively high crime rate amongst aboriginals*. I favour a sociological explanation.
*generic sense of the word
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:55 pm
reid
Don’t know if you’ve accessed this site before but it certainly covers one of your fields of interest.
Ref: http://www.debka.com/
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:55 pm
• Involves conduct that would be regarded as criminal had it occurred in New Zealand, and
would have carried a similar penalty.
Which of course is why they sucked key and co into passing the shite laws they have.
Key needs to harden the fuck up to these slimy bastards.
personally I don’t give a shit if the Yanks never talk to us. They are dishonest bastards at the best of times.
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:01 pm
You won’t say that when the Chinee sail down here to claim their land and show us their new aircraft carrier V2.
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:08 pm
A sign?
On the day our very own violent psychopathic mass murderer accused mega file copier gets bail, comes this:
A federal appeals court reversed the conviction late Thursday of Sergey Aleynikov, a former Goldman Sachs programmer found guilty of stealing proprietary code from the bank’s high-frequency trading platform.
http://nominister.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/sign.html
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:13 pm
Hey johnboy, haven’t you noticed out in the swamp that they are already here. Came via Air NZ didn’t need any big ship.
you no doubt know of the Gee family in Petone. knew them when I was a kid.
Probably if you looked even your sheepish have started to inherit chinese genes.
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:22 pm
From the “Help” section of an New Zealand Farming magazine:
Dear Doctor
I’ve tried most sex positions, but in the end I always come back to the good old missionary position. I like to look into their eyes, and maybe give them a really good snog when I’m making love.
I would have to admit that the sheep never seem to be overly enthusiastic with the situation.
What am I doing wrong?
Johnboy
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:25 pm
And we’re off, maybe.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/02/ap-us-softens-stance-on-arms-for-syria-rebels-022112
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:44 pm
Thanks for that nasska, yes I know of it. But do appreciate the heads up.