Leave our foreskins alone
March 7th, 2012 at 1:00 pm by David FarrarNicholas Jones in the Herald reports:
Circumcision reduces the risk of infections, cancer and other painful conditions and should be routinely carried out on newborn boys, a study claims.
About 10 per cent of New Zealand’s male babies are circumcised, but the Government pays for the procedure only for medical reasons, such as frequent infections.
But recent research by 12 medical experts, led by Sydney University professor of medicine Brian Morris, claimed evidence in favour of infant circumcision was overwhelming. …
How long until someone wants to make it compulsory. I say leave our foreskins alone!
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March 7th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
Zionist plot.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
I heard this report on the radio this morning and was stunned that academics came to this conclusion. By that logic perhaps any part of our bodies that may sometime be infected should be chopped off at birth just in case? Circumcision unless medically necessary (1%?) is genital mutilation in my opinion.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
I do not care unless they have some sickos on Close up eating them.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
No baby mutilation. Let them take a foreskin and next they’ll want everything.
Breasts are cancer risks. Mouths are full of bacteria – same between toes. Fingernails trap dirt.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:21 pm
David, you are not alone – all members of the SAS will be against this research finding, and right behind your timely “Leave Our Foreskins Alone” (LOFA) campaign.
Edit: SAS = Smegma Appreciation Society
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
We utterly condemn nations and cultures that cut the analogous bit of flesh off their baby girls’ bodies in bizarre un-anesthetised procedures, calling them ‘cruel’ and ‘barbaric’… but when we do it to boys its “just different” – hmmmmmkay?
Why worry?
Most babies won’t remember the hideous pain they endured. (Oh yes they did… Google “Plastibell procedure videos”)
Only a few of them bleed to death in the immediate post-op period.
Of those that don’t, only “a few” of them have painful erections, skin bridges, etc that afflict them for life.
For every study purporting some health benefits, there are only about ten debunking those findings.
But hey, cut the end off your baby boy’s dick because it seems like it might – possibly – bring some very slight benefits, maybe. While you’re there, better get yourself done too right?
No. Just, No. The dark ages are ——-> over there.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Cultural practice
How soon will it be in till some one wants female circumspection equal rights and all.
Up to the parents see above.
On the other hand I dock my boxer dogs tails.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
Genital mutilation my arse. Compare my pristine German soldier to a raggedy old Anteater and I will tell you which looks like it has been mutilated.
New Zealand whacked off the foreskin as a matter of course for all new born boys ever since our lads all came back from fighting in the desert with nob rot. Any terrible repercussions that the wowsers are flapping about…was their fuck. Stopped because we all turned into Homo’s some time in the 90′s (same reason we lead the world in the number of our males getting themselves neutered)
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
1. Man the Herald is a shit paper.
2. From the article: “the NZ Paediatric Society said, while there were some ‘small benefits’ to circumcision, they were not enough to warrant funding the procedure.” And it said “Royal Australasian College of Physicians declared ‘there is no medical indication for routine neonatal circumcision.” This flies in the face of the Sydney University professor Brain Morris who made the claim. Morris is not a medical doctor, but a professor of Molecular Medical Science. Further to that he’s a pro-circumcision proponent so may be biased. I see that part of his reasoning is that the ‘evidence’ shows that foreskins can increase the likelihood of passing on HIV and syphilis. Two STDs (sorry STIs) that most people do not have.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Yeah, well, comes under every individuals choice doesn’t it, the poor babies, they don’t have a say. And word to the wise; theres a number of women out there who will get the foreskin lopped on their sons if it looks the smallest bit tight, when a bit of steroid cream (prescribed by the G.P does the trick. Not sure what the moral of sharing that little bit of info is. Perhaps: “watch who you marry, they may be a bit scissor happy”.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
I’m not surprised it’s down to 10% now, most mothers who feel for their babies are distraught enough knowing their baby’s heel’s being pricked, let alone their prick being peeled.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
*sigh*, no it should be routinely carried out. It should be the choice of the parents.
I don’t think it’s reasonable to compare female circumcision with male circumcision. There are, apparently, 3 types of female circumcision, and all of them limit sexual enjoyment. There is one type of male circumcision, and to the best of my lopped member’s experience things are just fine thank you very much.
@pete –
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
edit: *sigh*, no it should NOT be routinely carried out.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Thing is KK you don’t get a choice. I asked the birds at the hospital a couple of years back about getting it done for my boy when he was born and they looked at me like I had asked for advice on what setting I should put the dryer to when I stuffed him in it.
Fuck I hate hippies
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
Well if there are definite health benefits then why would you see circumcision as being any different from a flu vaccine? Quick snip and you’re done. You gotta cut the umbilical chord too, so what’s the diff?
Chop ‘em off I say!
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
So what’s it to be?
Helmets or Snuffies?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
TMI Info warning:
Dime happens to have some insight into this topic.
I got done as an ADULT!
Hand on heart, one of the best things i ever did. Not that i had a choice, i suffered a freak sex injury heh but yeah back to my point.
Sex is better. nuff said? I polled (excuse the pun) a bunch of girls before i had it done. i also slept with a few before and after.. results came back in favor of the cut cock! its cleaner, easier, much more handsome.
What are the stats of guys that get done as an adult? when i did research pre-brutal surgery they were quite high.
Baby – some numbing ointment in the morning, a quick cut and its off in the nappy the next change. one of my buddies boys didnt even bleed.
Adult – 60 mins of PAIN followed by a week of.. PAIN!
worth it though.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
almost forgot – ive heard a lot of angry feminist sounding women say – things are better if uncut, more feeling etc. i call bullshit!!!
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
Brian Morris, Sydney University, has been publishing this “Research” / “personal opinion” for over 10 years. I doubt that his latest research is unbiased.
I wish newspaper articles would start to publish the basic figures.
For example the article says “higher risk of prostate and penile cancer”. Well, how much higher?
From Wikipedia:
“Penile cancer is very rare in Europe and North America, occurring in about one in 100,000 men”.
I think I would put more money into childhood vaccinations before I started spending $300 to $1000 per male child (quoted cost from article).
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
@ dime
Not sure if you’re bullshitting or not.
“I polled (excuse the pun) a bunch of girls before i had it done. i also slept with a few before and after.. results came back in favor of the cut cock! its cleaner, easier, much more handsome.”
If your story is true, do you use a condom? If so, what’s the difference? If not, why are you having unprotected sex with women who are clearly sluts and who knows what STDs (sorry STIs) they’re carrying?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Kermadec – whats the breast rate cancer per 100,000 people?
70 or so??
1/70th of the breast cancer cash could probably pay for circumcisions.
Dont get me wrong, im all in favour of funding going to breast cancer.. im a big fan of boobs.. but im also a big fan of not having cock cancer lol
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
East Wellington – 100% true.
Dime sometimes has gf’s.
Always skin up for casual though. Aids doesnt concern me much, only poor people die from that hehe but herpes wouldnt be flash..
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
We could leave our finger and toe nails alone too, DPF. Heck, why don’t we leave our hair growth alone too? your logic is childlike and has no place in informed discussion.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
And (by an extension of your finger & toenail logic) we could reduce breast cancer rates 100% by giving all women pre-emptive mastectomies, whether they have predisposing factors for breast cancer or not.
But does that mean we should do it?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
@ Dime – thanks for sharing some good info dude. How long ago did all this happen?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Dime, regarding Breast Cancer:
“The National Breast and Ovarian Cancer Centre of Australia report that one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer before the age of 85 years in Australia.”
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Any adult can get a circumcision any time they like – if they’re willing to pay for it themselves.
I don’t want to:
1. Pay for other people to have this done
2. Inflict it on children who don’t have a choice
It’s cutting off a part of the body that evolved to be there. It offers lubrication and protection to the sensitive glans. But just like body piercings and those disgusting stretch-lobe earrings that gay people have, you can do with it whatever you want.
@Scott Chris, the difference between the foreskin and the umbilical cord is that if you leave the umbi cord uncut it will wither up and fall off on its own. That shouldn’t happen to your penis.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Kermadec – isnt that if all women live to 85 though? i read the same stat but they said 95.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
RRM – it was so traumatic i blocked it out lol
i was 30 or 31. im usually good with dates too.
of course it was a hot nurse who assisted… they dont put ya out but ya get a local.. imagine how good that feels when it happens lol i had my ipod on.. hot nurse held my hand the whole way though. very sweet!
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Wherever you stand on this topic of male circumcision, don’t you think there is a slight difference between cutting off the clitoris and cutting off the foreskin?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Nothing that a good cleaning wont do just as well.
And there are benefits to keeping the foreskin as well.
I can’t really see why there is a causation between the foreskin and prostate or penile cancer, but I am happy to be told otherwise. However the best protection against HIV and syphilis is a condom, not a removed foreskin. The risk is probably only 3 to 8 times greater if you have unprotected sex.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
Absolutely; cutting off the clitoris would be akin to cutting off the whole knob of your penis, not just the foreskin.
However, male circumcision of the foreskin is akin to cutting off the clitoral hood, and somehow I doubt that it would be easy to popularise that as a routine thing for infant girls in New Zealand!
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
I say “no to routine infant circumcision”.
Vote:I was done and wish I hadn’t been. I wish I had at least been given the choice.
I’m very glad that the rate has declined from almost all boys back in the 60s to only 10% now. Imho, even 10% is too high.
**Babies have rights**, and in my opinion, parents have no right to lop off a perfectly normal body part from their sons.
March 7th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Well I’ve read a fair amount of rubbish on this site – but dimes bizarre posts today take the prize!
Vote:Dime, was your “freak sex injury” herpes, because those posts show signs of insanity
March 7th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
But back to the issue of circumcision…
Male and female circumcision aren’t on the same ‘level’ of gential mutilation. Of course female circumcision is far worse. But don’t be fooled thinking male circumcision is harmless or even beneficial.
Vote:It’s no coincidence that male circumcision is linked to religion. It was believed that circumcision reduced masterbation. Well any teenage boy will tell you that is a load of rubbish! But fast forward years and years of the head of the penis being exposed obviously there is a loss of sensation. Look at the USA – most males are circumcised there. USA is also the land of viagra. Coincidence again – I think not!
March 7th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
Le Grand Fromage @ 2.24pm
Vote:Well done on those doctors and nurses I say! Since you call them “hippies” I gather you believe in personal choice/rights of the individual etc.
Well how about giving your son the personal choice of being circumcised or not rather than taking that choice from him? He will thank you for it!
March 7th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
@thor42 – help me understand your thinking here. Are you saying that parents have no right to direct how their childrens bodies are altered? If so, should we ban parents from giving their kids piercings, tatoos? Or from allowing, or indeeed withholding prescription medicine? Each of these changes the body often permanently. Where would you draw the line?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Thor – why do you wish you hadn’t been?
Bc – why bizarre? Male adult circumcision is not that rare. I described it as a freaky sex injury because it happened during sex and is uncommon. I don’t really want to go into specifics. I didn’t end up in an emergency room or anything but it was done not long after.
I’m not sure why you’d think I made it up? If I was going to lie I’d make myself way cooler.
Recovery was a good week on the couch.
Up until the op I couldn’t care less if babies were done or not. But having experienced both ways as an adult I thought I’d give some insight.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Bc – almost forgot. You suggested giving boys the choice. Holy hell it’s a week of pain vs feeling nothing.
I guess I’m bizarre because I have a different opinion to you.
I’m starting to have flashbacks now. The first time I saw it after surgery I almost fainted. Looked terrible, thought I may never recover. The first bath (couldn’t shower) hurt. The first middle of the night boner when ya wake up cause its pulling the stitches, that hurt. The doctor saying theres nothing they could do to stop boners, only that Pseudo-ephedrine may help, pass! Putting cream meant for around the eyes on him to aid recovery.
The only funny bit – when the stitches started dissolving they would hang down a bit and it looked like my boy was wearing an Aussie hat
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
Dime, have you gone back and shagged the 179 chicks you banged before the circumcision to see if they think you are a better fuck now that you are cut?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
Why do it?
- A few babies each year worldwide will bleed to death after circumcision, and many more will lose their penis or have it left damaged.
- It’s painful
- any “health problem” relating to tight foreskins or whatever can be dealth with if and when they arise.
- this is appearance surgery, done on a patient too young to have input into the decision.
Leave the poor little buggers alone, if they want the chop they can get it done as adults.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 5:59 pm
It used to be routine especially for those of the Jewish faith and Protestants but not Catholics. The health benefits are substantial. In Africa there was a trial of circumcism vs none and the results favoured circumcism so decisively the trial was abandoned in favour of circumcism. I favour the practise but for those who reject it well have your way.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
Annie asks “Why do it?”. Well, Male Circumcision Cuts Women’s Cervical Cancer Risk
So Annie…. it’s all part of the, ah, service
Edit: @tvb – Snap. We both hit that note at the same time!
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
Bruv – just a few
Annie – wrong. I had no choice. If I didn’t get done it was going to lead to some serious serious issues.
Funny how women are allowed to be an authority on this.. But god help us if we have any input on women’s health..
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 6:13 pm
As a Family Doctor trained overseas I was surprised that there were some non Jewish people asking about what I thought about circumcision.
When I enquired as to why the parents were considering surgery on their son the usual response was “Well his father had it done to him. When I then enquired why he had it done to him the answer was always ‘because his father had it done to him”.
I then theatrically looked bemused and replied. ” This reminds me of a couple who married and the first time the woman boiled a chicken she cut the bum off it and placed it beside the chicken. The husband thought this strange but said nothing. Every week she boiled a chicken and every week she cut off the bum. Eventually the husband asked his wife, “why do you always cut the bum off the chicken?”
She blushed, shrugged and replied, “That’s what my mother always use to do.”
Later that day her mother visited and the couple posed her the question. “Why did you always cut the bum off the chicken?”
She blushed and admitted “that’s what my mother used to do”
The husband said ‘ Let’s ask grandma then !”
They asked the grandma why she always cut the bum off the chicken.
She replied ” Because I never had a pot big enough for a whole chicken…….”
I then said ” Can you tell me again what is your good reason for thinking about unneeded surgery on your son?”
Vote:Stunned silence.
March 7th, 2012 at 6:17 pm
Dime don’t you think you are being a knob about this
Vote:I would sooner have my iron rod in a velvet glove
March 7th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Annie.
Dime is dead right, keep your beak out of this, being a chick it has nothing to do with you.
Unless you want Dime and I to start stating that all fat chicks should have their stomachs stapled and all flat chested chicks get boobs jobs.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Wife joke
What’s that useless bit of skin that hangs off a dick?
Vote:A man.
March 7th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
I would politely suggest that 90%+ of the regular commenters here have already been circumcised but they threw the useful bit away………..
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
…. and I would politely suggest that your handle makes you the only one here qualified to comment
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 6:52 pm
Fisiani, thanks, not sure if it was supposed to be a joke but I had a good laugh at that.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Not a joke. I used that story perhaps 20 times.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Still funny. What was your success rate with it?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 7:17 pm
virtually 100%
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Good to know those those pope’s noses are of some use.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 7:29 pm
I just want to know if Dime suffered a freak-sex injury or a freak sex-injury…or was it both?
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
Hi dime
Vote:Re-reading my post @5.15pm, the comment about your ‘sex injury’ was a bit mean. Saying something nasty and putting a smily face afterwards so that it looks like a joke, is the type of bitter comment that johnboy does, and God help if if I turn out like him (no smily face this time – I really would hate to end up as bitter and twisted as he is).
Nevertheless, your before-op and post-op sex survey is a bit bizarre, not to mention a load of rubbish. I suspect there is very little ‘functional’ difference for woman whether the penis is circumcised or not – apart from all those older circumcised guys with reduced sensitivity having to pop a blue pill beforehand of course.
Whichever woman may prefer I would say it’s more to do with the ‘look’ of a circumcised or uncircumcised penis and as to which is which is more asthetically pleasing I imagine would depend on what is the “norm”, i.e. in the USA woman would be used to seeing guys circumcised, in most of the the rest of the world it would be the other way round.
Mind you I would imagine most woman wouldn’t care to much either way, what would be more important to them I suspect is how the guy uses it!!
March 7th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
dime and big bruv why shouldn’t woman have a say on getting their sons circumcised, they are as much as their child as the fathers.
Vote:And thank goodness that they do! Because the fathers objectivity is lost somewhat by wanting to have their sons look just like them. At least woman can see that is no reason whatsoever to give their sons penis the chop!
Mothers have been instrumental in reducing the percentage of circumcisions done in the USA. They quite rightly are researching the issue and realising that vanity is not a good enough reason to do cut their sons genitals.
March 7th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
I don’t know about all you big noters but I need anything that adds a bit of length, evidently measuring from the back of your neck isn’t how its done.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 7:52 pm
Presumably as a responsible GP you inform your patients of the health benefits of circumcision as well? Kinda renders your neat little story meaningless though….
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 8:05 pm
bc – “not to mention a load of rubbish.” thats based on “I suspect there is” lol
i surveyed some girls i had been with and i asked a good 20 girls online. it was a chat room so say 5 were guys..
“do you prefer cut or uncut”
i got about 16 cut and 4 dont care. not one “i prefer a dirty old sock”. but you are right, it didnt effect the “feel” for them. just for me.. which i thought was important.
when asked why – they said look. they are cleaner etc
you make it sound like aesthetically pleasing isnt a big deal. but hey, everyone is different.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 8:13 pm
dime
I think this is one of those cases where beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Mind you, on an associated theme, I have never heard yet of a woman who has uttered the phrase, “my….what a beautiful scrotum”!
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 10:43 pm
I lament my 60′s foreskin – was it a Zionist plot?? Leave it alone says David – Methinks the Hutt did it a lot.
Vote:March 7th, 2012 at 11:48 pm
It is a choice. I, for one, am glad my parents opted to circumcise me. Far easier to keep clean.
At the moment we make it hard for people to choose circumcision. Why? It’s not a Zionist plot nor proven to be bad for you. It is made hard by people who refuse to allow a choice, who believe their vew is the only one that counts.
Time to stop eroding our freedom to choose.
Vote:March 8th, 2012 at 5:10 pm
About two years ago in Britain a subsidy for circumcisions was withdrawn by the government and immediately afterwards the BMA changed it’s stance from recommending them to not recommending them.
The only benefit that science supports is a statistically sleight improvement in odds of avoiding catching STD’s
Vote:March 8th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
I heard of a chap who worked in a circumcision clinic in Wellington some time back.
He said the pay was awful but there was no shortage of tips.
Vote:March 8th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
Disagree. See this comment.
Vote:March 8th, 2012 at 8:26 pm
“How long until someone wants to make it compulsory”?
Prof. Brian Morris ALREADY wants to make it compulsory. He said so on Australian TV on May 23, 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74BjXjR8FdM
He has never seen a reason to circumcise he didn’t like. His latest paper is laughable. Many of the references are to his own previous diatribes. Many do not confirm the claims he makes about them.
The figure of 10% for New Zealand is a wild exaggeration. Leave out Polynesians and it’s close to zero. An American paediatrician says she was here for months before she saw one.
Circumcision has “medical benefits” the way wearing garlic has vampire-repellent benefits. Where they are not completely bogus they are exaggerated – slight reductions in rare diseases of late onset that can be better prevented by other means or treated (often without surgery) as they arise.
@krazykiwi: “If so, should we ban parents from giving their kids piercings, tatoos?” Tattoos and genitals piercings, we already do. But piercings are reversible; just leave out the earring and the hole closes over.
@riverfreeloader: “It is a choice … Time to stop eroding our freedom to choose.” Exactly. Which is why it should never be done to healthy babies.
Vote:March 8th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
When I was just a wee little lad full of health and joy, I woke up to find a Rabbi standing over me.
“Leave my foreskin alone,” I cried.
He laughed and held something up
“Too late, Jewboy, too late.”
Vote:March 8th, 2012 at 11:16 pm
What’s to disagree with? Cervical Cancer is an STD, circumcision improves the odds on avoiding STDs’ sleightly. No disagreement.
Vote:March 11th, 2012 at 11:47 am
Fentex: “Cervical cancer is an STD” What? If it were, only lesbians could get it!
Vote: